AUTISM Epidemic EXPOSED: Are We Ignoring the WARNING Signs?
Jenny dives deep into the world of living with complex PTSD and autism, she shares her journey, highlighting not just the struggles but the triumphs that come with navigating life as a high-functioning neurodiverse person. We chat about the importance of recognising the unique challenges faced by individuals with these conditions, especially when so many people still don’t understand them. Jenny’s personal experiences add a rich layer to our discussion, shedding light on how societal perceptions can shape our realities. Plus, we delve into some enlightening anecdotes about her teaching career, where she learned just as much from her students as they did from her. Her experiences and insights on embracing differences and building connections, especially in a world that often feels overwhelming, are worthwhile for anyone looking for hope and reassurance in the modern world! We also delve into her experiences living with C-PTSD (Complex PTSD) and how that differs from typical PTSD and how it has impacted her life and her perspective of both herself and the world in general.
Takeaways:
- Jenny shares her journey of living with complex PTSD, autism, and panic disorder, highlighting the importance of awareness and understanding.
- Navigating adulthood can be especially challenging for neurodiverse individuals, as simple tasks often require much more preparation and effort.
- The concept of 'high functioning' can be misleading; Jenny explains how it often disguises the daily struggles faced beneath the surface.
- Jenny emphasises that a diagnosis can be a double-edged sword, providing clarity and community but also risking the imposition of labels.
- Through her role as a teacher, Jenny learned how sharing her experiences with students fosters comfort and connection, highlighting the value of honesty in teaching.
- Jenny's decision to wear noise-cancelling headphones at a public event showcased her journey toward self-acceptance and the support of those around her.
Transcript
Jenny, let's start off with why did you say yes to speaking with me?
Speaker B:I think I've got a lot to talk about, to be honest.
Speaker B:There's.
Speaker B:There's quite a few things that I think I've seen on your podcast where I thought, oh, actually that's really interesting.
Speaker B:And I've sort of got similar experience.
Speaker B:I've got lived experience of quite a few things and then also kind of the, the academic side of it from my career as well.
Speaker B:So there's quite a few things I just like to talk about.
Speaker B:And yeah, keen to sort of contribute to what you're trying to do.
Speaker A:So what, when you say lived experience, I'm guessing you mean in the context of.
Speaker A:Do you mean the context of mental health?
Speaker B:I do, yeah, yeah, exactly that.
Speaker A:So do you want to like, just touch on that briefly and then we'll.
Speaker A:I like.
Speaker A:No, I'll try and incorporate speaking about you personally with wider topics as we go through.
Speaker A:But can you like, give a little prelude onto what that means?
Speaker B:Sure, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker B:So I have complex ptsd.
Speaker B:I'm also autistic and I have panic disorder and non epileptic attack disorder.
Speaker B:So four comorbidities, which is just great fun.
Speaker B:Loads of things to add into the mix.
Speaker B:And that's.
Speaker B:I'm really passionate about it because of obviously my lived experience of all of those conditions and especially some of them being quite rare and not a lot of people knowing about them.
Speaker B:Some of those conditions I imagine some people wouldn't have heard of at all.
Speaker B:So they're quite rare.
Speaker B:And I'm really passionate about it because it's something that I've struggled with for a long time.
Speaker B:There isn't enough support, there isn't enough awareness.
Speaker B:And especially as someone who is high functioning with those conditions, it's even harder to get the support I need.
Speaker B:So, yeah, that gives you kind of.
Speaker A:An overview when you say high functioning.
Speaker A:For anyone that doesn't understand what that means.
Speaker A:Can you expand on that?
Speaker B:Sure, absolutely.
Speaker B:So the reason I say high functioning, I choose to use that term.
Speaker B:And I think it's important to clarify for anyone who has special educational need, mental health need, neurodiversity of any sort, that the term they use to describe themselves is their own choice.
Speaker B:It's always that way.
Speaker B:Whatever you want to use to describe yourself is okay, and that's fine, and everyone will have different agreements about what the correct term is.
Speaker B:But your own condition is your own choice, the way you describe it.
Speaker B:So when I refer to high functioning, essentially that means I look to other people, like I don't have any of these conditions.
Speaker B:That's the easiest way to describe it.
Speaker B:So I have a full time career, I've got a postgraduate degree, an undergraduate degree.
Speaker B:I, I've got a car, I've got friends, I've got a social life, I've got a flat.
Speaker B:So I have what would seem like kind of a normal life.
Speaker B:So I function day to day how it looks like I'm functioning well essentially that's what high functioning means obviously beneath the surface that's, that's not the case.
Speaker B:But most people wouldn't be aware of that of course.
Speaker A:And that's the very relevant points because the statistics on sort of young adults with SEN difficulties and have sort of exited childhood and been flung into adulthood and all the slings and arrows that are part and parcel of encountering that are not great and young, young adults are really struggling along those dimensions that you just laid out.
Speaker A:So how was entering adulthood like for you and what were the ups and downs and navigating what just ordinary life has to curse and bless us with?
Speaker A:How did you cope with that and learn?
Speaker B:It's been, yeah, it's been hectic and I can't lie, it's been, it's been hectic and it's been intense.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I think the most frustrating thing is watching my peers do everything.
Speaker B:It takes me, you know, I use a spoon analogy.
Speaker B:You may well have heard for people with chronic illness they use an analogy if they have sort of a certain amount of spoons of energy per day and it will take me say for instance, 10 spoons of energy to do something and I'll watch one of my friends do it and it takes them one.
Speaker B:And it's really frustrating to just navigate basic life watching people around me do it without any difficulty.
Speaker B:Even things as simple as going to the shop.
Speaker B:I can't just go into a shop and buy things.
Speaker B:I have to be very prepared for it.
Speaker B:I have to have earplugs with me, noise cancelling headphones, I have glasses that change the light in there because shops are often very bright and I have to be wearing clothes that aren't too hot because I'm heat sensitive as well.
Speaker B:I have to make sure I have a shopping list because my memory is quite bad.
Speaker B:I will forget things.
Speaker B:I have to make sure I have a easy exit wherever I'm going.
Speaker B:So I won't go to a shop too big because I can get, you know, lost somewhere at the back.
Speaker B:And then I get stressed because I can't Exit the shop easily so you can.
Speaker B:Really simple things like that.
Speaker B:And then you look at huge things, like huge decisions in my life.
Speaker B:Like I'm, I'm trying to buy a house this year.
Speaker B:A massive, massive decision to make.
Speaker B:And for a neurotypical person that's incredibly challenging.
Speaker B:But for someone who's neurodiverse, it's even more challenging.
Speaker B:So, so yeah, it's frustrating but you know, in a way I like to say that it's kind of, it's helped me.
Speaker B:I think if I hadn't have gone through sort of struggles I had, I don't think I would be where I am today.
Speaker B:You know, I'm, I'm proud of the fact that I've come through the things that I already have and I'm sure more in the future.
Speaker B:And it's, it's, yeah, allowed me to keep going, I think because I'm so dedicated to being normal and I do use that word then I push through a lot.
Speaker B:So, you know, it's a blessing and a curse, I think.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And yeah, you definitely should be proud.
Speaker A:And I like ending your piece on blessing and a curse because I think that's relevant to what I was, I wanted to say while you were talking, I spoke to someone who considered themselves to be high functioning as well a few months ago and he was going to the science behind autism and he was sort of, he was talking about the cerebellum and the brain stem and he was basically saying that the cerebellum, I think 80% of our brain neurons reside in the cerebellum.
Speaker A:So it's a really, really densely packed and sort of instrumental aspect of the brain.
Speaker A:And what the difference between a neurotypical and a neurodivergent and as from of what, at least this is what he was saying or implying was that the neurotypicals cerebellum has taken all of its experience and automated them and placed them in a system so that they don't have to think sort of directively about what they're doing.
Speaker A:So when they're in a social situation, someone says something, they just know what to say.
Speaker A:It's just sort of there.
Speaker A:And, and I thought that related to what you were talking about with going into the, the shops and how you have to sort of not psych yourself up but you have to be prepared in a sense and all the other things you laid out.
Speaker A:And then I said, are there any benefits to having a brain that doesn't automate like that?
Speaker A:And he said, yes, there are a Lot of benefits.
Speaker A:And what he basically said is that it can be tiring, but you, your brain has to adapt and it has to think really, really quickly, and it can almost elevate you and put you above other people.
Speaker B:Yeah, you're.
Speaker B:I'm so glad you said that because I was thinking of this the other day, actually.
Speaker B:One thing I noticed within myself, and you may have experienced it.
Speaker B:I mean, I know you, you worked within a certain setting as well, so you may well have experienced in that setting as well.
Speaker B:One of the benefits of being neurodiverse is my pattern recognition is uncanny.
Speaker B:So I usually know what someone is going to say five words before they finish their sentence.
Speaker B:I usually know how an interaction is going to go because I can recognize patterns in people.
Speaker B:I know the way that they're going to react to things.
Speaker B:I know the things they're going to talk about.
Speaker B:I, I recognize it so quickly.
Speaker B:Even things like.
Speaker B:I mean, I feel awful for my other half because he tries to surprise me and he never can because whatever he's going to get me, I've probably worked out he's going to get me because I know, I've mentioned it and I know he's the sort of person that would get this and that sort of thing.
Speaker B:You see what I mean?
Speaker B:So the pattern recognition, I mean, that is definitely one benefit of it, is that it is.
Speaker B:It is incredible.
Speaker B:I can usually see the ways things are going to go.
Speaker B:I learn very quickly how someone works, what makes them tick, what they like, what they don't like, and then adapt to that.
Speaker B:So definitely.
Speaker A:And that is the ultimate skill.
Speaker A:And that sort of.
Speaker A:It's ironic that autism, which we associate with struggling in social situations, actually can create the exact opposite.
Speaker A:I mean, you're obviously a very intelligent person, so you've got that going for you.
Speaker A:So you've got that sort of combination of those two things working together in unison.
Speaker A:But, yes, I, I didn't.
Speaker A:That's really interesting that you, in your experience, it, you have the ability.
Speaker A:It goes like precognition almost.
Speaker B:Yeah, a hundred percent.
Speaker B:I mean, there's a lot of benefits, I think, to, to neurodiversity.
Speaker B:And I think that's why they're called neurodiverse conditions rather than neurodeficit conditions, because it's a different way of thinking.
Speaker B:And the way I sometimes describe it is a neurotypical person speaks one language.
Speaker B:They speak the way they speak.
Speaker B:They are the person they are, and they're that person with everyone.
Speaker B:A neurodiverse person may speak a hundred languages.
Speaker B:And I call them that because we speak in a different way to different people, because we learn what they like and we learn what works for them and we actively learn and change for each different person.
Speaker B:So it's like I'm speaking a hundred different languages.
Speaker B:And, you know, we sometimes see, while autism, although it is technically a disability, it is classed as a disability, but really it's a.
Speaker B:It's a different ability.
Speaker B:It's an ability like we have the ability to speak all of these different languages in a neurotypical person because they've never had to.
Speaker B:Because they've only had to be themselves, They've only had to be as they come.
Speaker B:They don't have to learn all of these different languages.
Speaker B:So, yeah, just a.
Speaker B:Another benefit of it is it's nice to recognize some of those, those positives that do come from these diverse conditions.
Speaker A:Definitely.
Speaker A:And then you also mentioned complex ptsd.
Speaker A:Now, that's obviously going to be a sensitive personal subject.
Speaker A:Can you.
Speaker A:What differentiates PTSD from complex ptsd?
Speaker B:Yeah, good question.
Speaker B:I get that quite a lot, actually.
Speaker B:So my assumption is for most people, when they think of ptsd, they think of war veterans and they think of sort of the typical nightmares, flashbacks, that sort of thing.
Speaker B:Actually, strangely enough, the Winnie the Pooh movie highlights it really well because he was, he was in the war and you can see flashbacks to it.
Speaker B:There's a scene where he's.
Speaker B:He's in the war and there's a.
Speaker B:There's a dead body next to him and you can.
Speaker B:There's flies going around it.
Speaker B:And then he's playing in the woods with his son and he hears bees and it makes him think, makes him go back to it.
Speaker B:And he has a panic attack because he's flashback to that.
Speaker B:So when we look at ptsd, that's kind of what it means.
Speaker B:PTSD is post Traumatic stress disorder.
Speaker B:You have some sort of trauma, but usually it's an isolated event, as in it's just one kind of trauma.
Speaker B:That doesn't necessarily mean it was just one day.
Speaker B:It could have been, but it's just one trauma within itself.
Speaker B:Complex PTSD is multiple traumas.
Speaker B:Most often when you have cptsd, it's because of childhood, because obviously that's when our brain is developing.
Speaker B:So our brain learns to go into the.
Speaker B:The fear response, go into fight and flight all the time because we're developing.
Speaker B:Whereas as an adult we have the ability to sort of reason and work with it and that sort of thing, and it's less likely to develop if those traumas happen later in life, but in that younger area of life where complex trauma has happened, it may be.
Speaker B:It can be different for different people.
Speaker B:It could be abuse, torture, war, all sorts of things.
Speaker B:And as a result, it causes physical differences to, not only the way the brain looks, the way the brain functions, and causes a whole range of different symptoms, many of them similar to ptsd, but a lot of more complex and sort of inbuilt challenges.
Speaker B:So with ptsd, flashbacks would be an example.
Speaker B:With complex ptsd, you might have depersonalization and derealization where you don't recognize yourself.
Speaker B:So I'll have this sometimes where I look in the mirror and I don't recognize myself at all.
Speaker B:And you'll have like inbuilt personality things as well.
Speaker B:So, like, trust is a big one, for instance.
Speaker B:So being able to trust someone, even if you consciously are like this person, you can.
Speaker B:You can trust them.
Speaker B:They're a safe person.
Speaker B:It's inbuilt that we can't trust that person.
Speaker B:So building up trust is kind of another thing with that.
Speaker B:There's a whole host of things that come with complex ptsd.
Speaker B:But one of the challenges is that a lot of the symptoms also mimic autism.
Speaker B:So a lot of the things I was talking about, I think I spoke about briefly before with hypersensitivity, so sensory overload, a lot of those symptoms are also autistic symptoms.
Speaker B:So there's a real challenge for clinicians to correctly diagnose the condition because they are so, so similar.
Speaker B:There's a.
Speaker B:Yeah, a lot of overlap there.
Speaker A:There's.
Speaker A:There's a lot of overlap, obviously across many, many mental health conditions.
Speaker A:So misdiagnosis must be something that occurs quite often when you look at something like borderline personality disorder and you compare it with bipolar, there's some symptoms, so.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:It's funny you say that.
Speaker B:I've been misdiagnosed, actually three times now.
Speaker B:I've been misdiagnosed.
Speaker B:So it's incredible how much it happens.
Speaker A:Do you find.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Did another debate that is, is it new?
Speaker A:I don't know how new it is.
Speaker A:I'm obviously limited to my own knowledge.
Speaker A:But is the debate between diagnosis and no diagnosis, in the sense of does being diagnosed help someone or does it place them in a restrictive box and therefore they feel that they are bounded by this bracket that they've been given?
Speaker A:What's your opinion on a diagnosis?
Speaker B:I hear what you're saying.
Speaker B:I can see both sides of the debate, honestly, I can.
Speaker B:And it's Definitely person by person.
Speaker B:You know, it depends on what benefits that person.
Speaker B:Personally, I'm more on the side of.
Speaker B:I think diagnosis is beneficial.
Speaker B:I think you use it in the case of physical illness.
Speaker B:If you are constantly coughing, you can't stop coughing, your chest is hurting.
Speaker B:You want to know, do I have a chest infection?
Speaker B:Do I have asthma?
Speaker B:Do I have a cancer in my lung?
Speaker B:What is it you need to know in order to get the proper treatment, in order to get the proper help?
Speaker B:Knowing is the thing that makes the difference between proper treatment and incorrect treatment.
Speaker B:And I think, especially with me, that was quite a big thing because for a while I was diagnosed with eupd, which you spoke about previously, previously called Borderline Personality Disorder.
Speaker B:It's now called Emotionally Unstable Personality Disorder.
Speaker B:Because my emotional instability was so high, that's what they diagnosed me with.
Speaker B:But actually that was a symptom of my cptsd.
Speaker B:If EUPD was the correct diagnosis, then I would have had a very different type of therapy to the type of therapy I should be going for.
Speaker B:Because this is actually a trauma response.
Speaker B:It isn't due to me having eupd.
Speaker B:So for me, that diagnosis has been the difference between the incorrect and the correct treatment.
Speaker B:I hear what you're saying about being put in a box.
Speaker B:I do understand that.
Speaker B:But for a lot of people, people are seeking diagnos because they want to know who they are.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:It's human nature to want to know, who am I?
Speaker B:You know, what matters to me?
Speaker B:What am I to be part of something as well?
Speaker B:I think we often say, right, you've got a diagnosis, you've got a label, that's it.
Speaker B:But once you have that, you kind of become part of this community.
Speaker B:You become.
Speaker B:You meet other people who have similar experiences and you connect with them and you meet new friends and you meet colleagues and you help people, you know who are currently experiencing it.
Speaker B:You become part of a community as well, and it becomes part of your identity.
Speaker B:And I don't think that's a bad thing.
Speaker B:I think people want to understand themselves.
Speaker B:I think there's a reason why the wait list for diagnosis for autism is up to three years for adults at the moment.
Speaker B:It's extensive because people want to know.
Speaker B:They want to know who they are, they want to know what matters so that they can get the correct help.
Speaker B:But obviously it's case by case.
Speaker B:If people don't want a diagnosis, then they don't.
Speaker B:They don't have to.
Speaker A:Of course.
Speaker A:Yeah, no, but I.
Speaker A:I completely understand.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:If someone is Repeatedly struggling, continually struggling with something, then a diagnosis is definitely helpful.
Speaker A:It's probably more relevant along the lines of someone has.
Speaker A:It also depends on your reaction to something.
Speaker A:So if someone.
Speaker A:There's multiple ways to reacting to getting a piece of information, obviously.
Speaker A:But if you're someone who receives a diagnosis of ADHD and that upsets you or worries you, then that's obviously an unhelpful immediate reaction to have.
Speaker A:And there would be sort of more work and input needed to help someone overcome that.
Speaker A:But then if the.
Speaker A:A good example would be, is someone who's maybe suffers with slight adhd.
Speaker A:That's.
Speaker A:That's a correct term.
Speaker A:Is that correct term?
Speaker B:You could.
Speaker A:You could say someone.
Speaker B:I mean, everyone sort of says.
Speaker B:It says whatever they want to say in their own way.
Speaker B:I suppose it's.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I mean, adhd, although not officially classed as a spectrum, I kind of.
Speaker B:I do think it is.
Speaker B:You know, you see people who are more affected by their ADHD and those who are less affected by their adhd.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So someone gets a slight diagnosis of ADHD and then if they're the sort of person who.
Speaker A:And we all fall prey to this, I did it when I was growing up.
Speaker A:Who can use their potential difficulties and disability as a excuse is the wrong term in the sense of getting out of something.
Speaker A:But if you lie to yourself about why you're struggling with something, then you fuel and you build that aspect of your personality that is capable of lying to yourself and deceiving yourself and then you muddy the waters.
Speaker A:And that's something that I.
Speaker A:I think I did a bit too much as a child and it's very easy for a child to do that.
Speaker A:It's you, obviously, as we've already alluded to, that children don't have the moral or the cognitive capacity to see, A, see into the future of what their benefit, of what their actions do, but B, just actually understand what they're doing at the moment and what it can have.
Speaker A:But if you, if you artificially inflate the impact that your difficulties have on you, your brain can't different.
Speaker A:It can't say, oh, I'm lying now, but I know that this is the case.
Speaker A:The irrational part of the brain doesn't think like that.
Speaker A:The irrational part of the brain just thinks, oh, you've done this.
Speaker A:So I need to.
Speaker A:I'm going to make this part of me bigger, because there's obviously a reason that we've done this.
Speaker A:And then you can get into some not unideal situations as the more and more you do that.
Speaker A:So I.
Speaker A:It's obviously is a case by case basis, but.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:Someone who's repeatedly and continually struggling with something and is looking for some form of answer and understands and is sort of wise enough to not see a diagnosis as a death sentence or not.
Speaker A:Or not a death sentence.
Speaker A:As a.
Speaker B:No, I see where you, where you come from.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:As a, as a sort of conceptual death sentence or something that you.
Speaker A:This is your plot of land that you've got now.
Speaker A:You, you.
Speaker A:You can only go there.
Speaker A:If you cannot see a diagnosis like that, then.
Speaker A:Yeah, I agree.
Speaker A:I'm all, I'm all for exploring and.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Three years.
Speaker A:Is that three years for children?
Speaker B:Three.
Speaker B:Three years of what?
Speaker B:Sorry?
Speaker A:You said the, the.
Speaker B:Oh, the wait list.
Speaker B:No, that's.
Speaker B:That's for adults.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's for adults.
Speaker B:I don't know what it is for children at the moment.
Speaker B:I know it is quite a while.
Speaker B:We have cams here, I believe.
Speaker B:I don't know that's every area, but locally to me it's cams.
Speaker B:Anyway.
Speaker B:I'm not certain what the waitlist is for children, but.
Speaker B:Yeah, for adults.
Speaker B:Three years.
Speaker B:Really long time.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Not that you probably don't know, but how do they assess something?
Speaker A:Like, how do.
Speaker A:How do you get like an autism assessment?
Speaker A:What does that.
Speaker B:So it's like a formal diagnosis and it's basically a series of scales and you also have family questionnaires.
Speaker B:So I had to send a questionnaire to my dad and to my mum and they had to respond to things related to my child because obviously I'm an adult now.
Speaker B:So they had to respond, you know, from their perspective.
Speaker B:In my childhood, did I demonstrate these particular shapes, traits and there's a whole variety of sort of things included on there and then there's a threshold and you either meet it or, or you don't basically.
Speaker A:How do you think we can help?
Speaker A:Well, actually, do I start with that question or do I start with the other one?
Speaker A:Why do you think that there's a potential rise of diagnosis among.
Speaker A:This is one of the questions among neurodivergence and.
Speaker A:Cause I, I had a.
Speaker A:The guy that I spoke to earlier.
Speaker A:Not earlier, that I brought up earlier that I spoke to.
Speaker A:He was speaking about how social media.
Speaker A:This is obvious, but he actually articulated it and because he understood the science, it was a bit more ratifying.
Speaker A:He said that if there are quite a few people out there who display and present with ADHD type symptoms and if you take their phone away from them, then there are studies on this, their ADHD symptoms can decrease.
Speaker A:Do you think there's anything equivalent to, do you think the same thing might apply for people with autistic tendencies?
Speaker A:Do you think that the phone, the lack of social interaction, is that exacerbating potential?
Speaker B:Yeah, really good, good point.
Speaker B:I can see where you're coming from there 100% on it.
Speaker B:I understand where he's coming from there as well.
Speaker B:So I'm a big believer in the social model of disability.
Speaker B:So there few different models of disability and the social model and the medical model are the two most prevalent.
Speaker B:The medical model is you have a diagnosis and your disability, whatever it is you're diagnosed with.
Speaker B:And this refers to all disabilities.
Speaker B:I don't just mean neurodiversity here, any sort of disability.
Speaker B:The medical model suggests that your disability disables you.
Speaker B:It's as straightforward as that.
Speaker B:The social model suggests that the reason we are disabled is because of society.
Speaker B:So for instance, if you took someone who was a wheelchair user, if there were ramps everywhere and in every single place, everywhere and everywhere was wheelchair accessible, then although they would still use the wheelchair, it wouldn't limit them at all.
Speaker B:They are limited by the fact that those ramps are not everywhere and that not everywhere is wheelchair accessible.
Speaker B:That is the thing that limits them.
Speaker B:So if you consider autism from that perspective, then not so much.
Speaker B:I can understand where you're coming from with phones, with, with adhd because obviously it's attention related and there are some studies regarding younger children and attention, which I'll go into a min if you remind me.
Speaker B:But with autism.
Speaker B:Yeah, I don't, I, I, I don't know.
Speaker B:I, I, I do think that there is that social element of, because the world around us is so much brighter and louder and there's so many people and everything is so busy that it's much easier to get overwhelmed by things.
Speaker B:And because things are so much more complex now with social norms are changing all the time.
Speaker B:There's always new things to learn, there's always new things to understand, new terms come into language all the time and we need to learn them.
Speaker B:All of these different things mean that it may be more likely that symptoms of autism will be presented.
Speaker B:Not necessarily to say that there are more autistic people because that really isn't the case.
Speaker B:Autistic people have always been there.
Speaker B:It's just now it's more prevalent because we're seeing people being put in situations where it's triggered.
Speaker B:And so, yeah, I'm kind of the believer in that sort of social side of it.
Speaker B:A little Bit as well.
Speaker B:That society is one of the things that disables us.
Speaker B:And if there were, you know, stimulation, for instance, then.
Speaker B:Then overstimulation wouldn't be as much of a problem.
Speaker B:If all shops, for instance, had lights turned down, then you wouldn't be as sensitive to light.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:If there weren't constant beeping noises and people talking, you wouldn't be as sensitive to sound if it's quieter.
Speaker B:So those things, I think, do sort of impact it.
Speaker B:So I do believe the medical model a little bit, but I'm also quite supportive of the social model, which is kind of what you're referring to.
Speaker A:Now, my theory is that we all exist on which one is it?
Speaker A:Well, one way of conceptualizing it is there's multiple spectrums of potential, like disability, the right word, like a mental fragility is maybe a better terminology.
Speaker A:And we are.
Speaker A:We have a biological point that we find ourselves on, that we're born and then our environment and our upbringing can move us up or down that spectrum.
Speaker A:And we.
Speaker A:Historically, I think, because society was significantly more stable and not maybe, Maybe not regulated.
Speaker B:Although I would say, I mean, probably regulated.
Speaker B:Very binary.
Speaker B:We existed very much in binaries and things weren't questioned.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:I look at.
Speaker B:When you say about that, it makes me think of sort of men and women's roles in the household in very sort of typical.
Speaker B:The woman stays at home, looks after the children, looks after the house.
Speaker B:The man goes to work, makes money, comes back in the evenings and is on this table.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:It's simple, it's straightforward.
Speaker B:And now, you know, I'm absolutely a feminist and all for the rise of it, but of course, one of the challenges of the fact that now everything is changing is, is that, you know, there are more options there, there are more opportunities there, and.
Speaker B:And we can be whoever we want to be.
Speaker B:And the lack of structure is hell for autistic people.
Speaker B:We need structure.
Speaker B:We need to know what's happening, we need to know why it's going to happen.
Speaker B:But, you know, I'm so fortunate to live somewhere where I do have any opportunity, you know, whatever I want to do.
Speaker B:If I wanted to study something, I could.
Speaker B:If I wanted to go into a different career path, I could.
Speaker B:If I wanted to move somewhere else, I could.
Speaker B:But it's freedom, but it's no structure.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:So for autistic people, that's definitely a challenge.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And it's.
Speaker A:I think it's particularly difficult for.
Speaker A:It's such.
Speaker A:We could.
Speaker A:You could do a whole.
Speaker A:Not even episode of Podcast, but a whole podcast itself on just talking about those dynamics.
Speaker A:Freedom versus structure, safety versus liberation.
Speaker A:Something like that.
Speaker B:Oh, I love that.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's great.
Speaker B:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:It's blessing and a curse again.
Speaker A:Pardon?
Speaker B:Blessing and a curse again.
Speaker A:Blessing and a curse again.
Speaker A:Exactly.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:But I do think one of the reasons why we're getting children who are allegedly displaying more autistic symptoms is because of that societal dysregulation and because it's a bit like.
Speaker A:The best analogy I used on a podcast ages ago with a guy who had ADHD was if.
Speaker A:Imagine everyone's stood in a swimming pool and some people are 0.6 meters tall and some people are 2 meters tall and their height is how mentally and emotionally stable they are within themselves, I guess as a.
Speaker A:As a collective, as an entity that spans across the family and society.
Speaker A:So if you grow up in a certain area, stable family, good.
Speaker A:You're not very high in trait neuroticism, which is basically entirely biologically determined.
Speaker A:You're going to be like 2 meters tall and you're going to be okay.
Speaker A:And then someone who's complete opposite, impoverished potential ethnic minority, if you want to go down that route, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker A:Learning disabilities, they're like 0.6.
Speaker A:And the level of the amount of water is size or complexity.
Speaker A:And what happens is, is when you add more complexity, which in another worm.
Speaker A:In other words, freedom and opportunity, as we just said, they're basically the same thing.
Speaker A:That person who's in 0.6 is going to really struggle and they're going to be like that, trying to get air.
Speaker A:And the person who's 2 meters is going to be like, okay, get a bit higher now, but I'm still fine.
Speaker A:That's.
Speaker A:And then, you know, people metaphorically drown.
Speaker A:And that's why I think that's one of the biggest problems we face as society is that those people get left behind and those people are.
Speaker A:Are everyone.
Speaker A:They're not just people that they don't look a certain way.
Speaker A:They're.
Speaker A:They're everyone.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:You can be.
Speaker A:You could have grown up.
Speaker A:I don't, I don't like identity politics, but I understand how they can be relevant.
Speaker A:You know, I mean, by identity politics.
Speaker B:Don'T you give me a definition?
Speaker A:So it's the idea of, so I'm a white heterosexual male, left middle class, not really middle class, but not working class male, therefore my life is easy because I belong to the privileged group of society.
Speaker A:I don't agree with that because actually, if you picked 10 random people, a hundred random people.
Speaker A:I'd probably be in the top 95 of difficulties in aspects of life.
Speaker A:But I have had obviously those inherent privileges, even though they're becoming, they're not actually, they're actually a bit of a disadvantage nowadays I think in some circumstances.
Speaker A:For what?
Speaker A:For various reasons.
Speaker A:But I think some of the biggest privileges are the ones that we don't talk about.
Speaker A:So I think my biggest privilege was that I had two loving parents growing up.
Speaker A:And no one ever says that that's not listed as the.
Speaker B:You're so right privilege.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:A hundred percent, the demographics.
Speaker A:And then you can get really, really down to real, real minutiae, details that identity politics is that.
Speaker A:And then the, the neck.
Speaker A:The sort of associated term is intersectionality, which is basically what I was just explaining.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:The idea that you can't just look at someone who's black, you have to look at the fact that they're black and a woman and that they're.
Speaker A:So you, you create like.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:A web of complexity and eventually I think if you push intersectionality to that is maximum.
Speaker A:It just collapses on itself and it realizes you have to look at the person as an individual.
Speaker B:Oh my God, you're so right.
Speaker B:You know what?
Speaker B:Everything you're saying there is, I stand by it 100%.
Speaker B:One of my favorite phrases is when you've met one person with autism.
Speaker B:You've met one person with autism.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:You, you know, someone who's neurotypical, pictures someone with autism and thinks of a three year old who absolutely loves trains, some, something typical or elders from the.
Speaker A:Big Bang theory, something like that.
Speaker B:The Big Bang theory, exactly.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:They don't think of a woman who's 26 and has a social life and a job and a career and.
Speaker B:Because that's not what it looks like.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:That's not what they think of, but it's the person.
Speaker B:You have to see the person as a person.
Speaker B:Everything you spoke about before, actually really valid point about sort of talking about the fact you're white, heterosexual, you're upbringing, middle class, that sort of thing.
Speaker B:If someone looked at my life, they would have seen the same.
Speaker B:You know, I grew up in a middle class household and we weren't, we weren't poor.
Speaker B:You know, I'm very fortunate in that respect.
Speaker B:Obviously I'm white, grew up in a fairly wealthy area, went to a good school.
Speaker B:You would think, oh, what, you know, what could possibly be wrong?
Speaker B:But you don't know me, you just know those characteristics.
Speaker B:So it's Seeing, yeah, the person as a person and not a statistic and not a factor or a characteristic, I think.
Speaker B:But yeah, it's definitely right, what you're saying.
Speaker A:It's not.
Speaker A:What is it?
Speaker A:It's not limiting someone to.
Speaker A:Because you have to make a judgment call of what aspect of someone's identity are you going to prioritize to put at the top of the hierarchy?
Speaker A:And that is, you're going to.
Speaker A:And we've, as a society, we've made like five main judgment calls and they're the big demographics, but there's actually thousands of them, 100%.
Speaker A:So, yeah, right, back to the.
Speaker A:What are we, 35 minutes in?
Speaker A:We're good for time, aren't we?
Speaker B:Sure, yeah, all good.
Speaker A:Do you mean by lack of research into women's health?
Speaker B:Yeah, good question, good question.
Speaker B:So my diagnosis for my seizures is non epileptic attack disorder, which is caused by my complex ptsd.
Speaker B:But my nead, which I shorten it to, because I'm not going to say it every single time, is what's called catamenial.
Speaker B:So it's caused by fluctuations in my hormones at certain times in my cycle.
Speaker B:And there is so little research into that, I've had to be referred to a specialist clinic in London, which is one of the only ones in the country that is likely to be able to help me because no one will touch me.
Speaker B:It falls without.
Speaker B:It falls out of all of the specialist remit, essentially.
Speaker B:So a gynecologist, they won't advise me on it because it's epilepsy, so they won't give me advice on what's the best thing to do.
Speaker B:A neurologist won't advise me on it because it's in regards to hormones and they can only advise on anticonvulsant medication.
Speaker B:They can't advise me on hormonal medication.
Speaker B:Endocrinologists won't advise on it either because it's skin related to seizures.
Speaker B:So there isn't really anyone.
Speaker B:I was thinking, why is this like, what is happening?
Speaker B:And there's.
Speaker B:There's a few reasons behind it.
Speaker B:One reason is the fact that it's fairly rare.
Speaker B:But if you look at other types of epilepsy that are also very rare, there's something called Lennox Gastrot Syndrome, I believe.
Speaker B:Very rare type of epilepsy as well.
Speaker B:But so much more research, like heavily, much more research.
Speaker B:It's one of the only conditions actually you can be prescribed medicinal cannabis for.
Speaker B:So they're actually making fairly big leaps in treating that condition, even though it's Very, very rare.
Speaker B:So I started looking into it and I thought, why on earth is this not being studied?
Speaker B:I mean, this is.
Speaker B:I mean, it's ruined my life, obviously.
Speaker B:It's made.
Speaker B:It's a nightmare for me to sort of do anything.
Speaker B:But why is that?
Speaker B:That lack of research there.
Speaker B:And it comes down to plain and simple historical bias when it comes to women's health.
Speaker B:And you'll see it in.
Speaker B:In lots of different other areas as well.
Speaker B:Now, a prime example of this is contraceptives for women.
Speaker B:There are, I don't even know how many contraceptives, plenty of different types of pills.
Speaker B:You've got injections, you've got implants, you've got coils, you've got all sorts of different things.
Speaker B:Male contraceptives, condoms.
Speaker B:There isn't.
Speaker B:There's no injection, there's no anything that changes the structure of a man's biology in any way.
Speaker B:And yet for women there's loads.
Speaker B:And for the, For.
Speaker B:The reason behind that, I honestly think, is because it benefits men for women to be the one whose body is suffering from needing that.
Speaker B:And I don't say that lightly because I'm aware that that's a big statement, but we see it in so many areas of.
Speaker B:Not just medicine.
Speaker B:There's lots of different things as well, that medicine is heavily such a big thing.
Speaker B:And I think it's incredible that even now we're in, what, 20, 25 now, this is still not being studied, this is not being researched.
Speaker B:It's clear that hormones have an impact on seizure activity and in a lot of women as well, even women who don't have the formal diagnosis because proestrogen and estrogen work differently and estrogen is a convulsant and proestrogen is an anticonvulsant.
Speaker B:So, of course, when you've got more estrogen, you're more likely to have a seizure.
Speaker B:Yet there isn't really research into it and there isn't really even medical guidance to advise clinicians on how to support women with this.
Speaker B:And, yeah, more absolutely needs to be done, to be honest.
Speaker A:Yeah, I.
Speaker A:I mean, the, the, the birth control pill in itself is a bit of a mess.
Speaker A:I think 100% was probably pushed through a little bit too soon, I think.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker A:Interesting idea with the.
Speaker A:It's a textbook feminist viewpoint to.
Speaker B:You're.
Speaker B:You're right.
Speaker B:Do you know what?
Speaker B:I honestly.
Speaker B:I understand by saying that.
Speaker B:I try not to be that sort of.
Speaker B:But there's evidence to support it.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:The only thing I would say is men's hormones, men's hormones don't fluctuate.
Speaker A:So if you do they.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, they do.
Speaker B:This is again, I mean, lack of research into men's hormonal cycles because men don't want to mess around with them.
Speaker B:But men's hormones fluctuate on a 24 hour cycle.
Speaker B:Women's fluctuate on a monthly cycle.
Speaker B:Fluctuate on a 24 hour cycle.
Speaker A:24 hour cycle.
Speaker A:Yeah, but what are you going to do with that though?
Speaker B:I am not a medical clinician, I can't advise you on that.
Speaker B:But there are other countries that are doing research into things like a pill or an injection for men that would work somewhat similarly, I suppose to how it would for women.
Speaker B:But I don't know enough about the medical side of it to be able to advise you.
Speaker B:But there is research going into it and of course there will be a way for it to happen.
Speaker B:Of course there will be a way for it to happen.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker B:But no one's pushing for it.
Speaker B:We'll just let women mess up their bodies for the rest of their lives.
Speaker B:And no one's pushing for men to need that.
Speaker B:No, men are going, I really want to mess up my body.
Speaker B:Please give me something to do that.
Speaker B:So we just do it.
Speaker A:But yeah, but I think, yeah, the.
Speaker A:Yeah, I mean the pills just bad news anyways.
Speaker A:And it.
Speaker B:Oh yeah, 100%.
Speaker B:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker A:Is that, is that, are they actually there?
Speaker A:They're working on stuff for, for men.
Speaker A:That's an interesting.
Speaker B:I have to find the research, but as far as I'm aware it's not in the uk.
Speaker B:Slightly more socially advanced countries within Europe I believe are working on things like that.
Speaker A:God, that would be interesting, wouldn't it?
Speaker B:That would be very interesting.
Speaker A:Reaction or appeal.
Speaker B:Very interesting.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:So is.
Speaker A:Oh yeah, that, that was one thing I was going to say.
Speaker A:A.
Speaker A:Is it.
Speaker A:It's not autoimmune related, is it?
Speaker A:It's not like a.
Speaker A:You're the condition that you just.
Speaker A:That you're suffering with.
Speaker B:No, it isn't.
Speaker B:No, no.
Speaker A:Autoimmune is the.
Speaker A:I always thought autoimmune or obviously it's immune system, but autoimmune often falls into the bracket of conditions that people can't categorize.
Speaker A:Yeah, I think.
Speaker A:Yeah, but maybe, but you know, obviously autoimmune has got to be related to the immune system.
Speaker A:So it's probably not autoimmune related, but it must fall into, as you said, you listed off all the things that it just sort of doesn't fit there.
Speaker A:Doesn't fit there.
Speaker A:Doesn't fit there.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:That's really annoying.
Speaker A:Is that, that's not because of the, the pill, is it?
Speaker B:No, it isn't.
Speaker B:No, no, no.
Speaker B:So it's a combination of hormone, hormonal and psychiatric factors.
Speaker B:So the seizures initially are caused by my cptsd.
Speaker B:That's what makes the seizures happen.
Speaker B:But the reason they happen at the times they happen is because of my hormones.
Speaker B:So both factors come to play with them, which is why I fall in between the middle.
Speaker B:Because you don't often get someone who is a specialist in both neurology and endocrinology or the hormones.
Speaker B:You know, I mean, it's, it's, it's usually one or the other.
Speaker B:They're not usually, they don't usually overlap.
Speaker A:No, definitely not.
Speaker A:That makes sense.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Should we talk about your time in a school?
Speaker B:Yeah, by all means.
Speaker A:For the next sort of eight minutes or so.
Speaker A:How did.
Speaker A:So you were, you were a teacher?
Speaker B:Yes, yeah, I was.
Speaker B:So I was a special educational needs teacher for six or seven years, I think in total.
Speaker B:Primarily I worked across a few colleges, so primarily I worked with 16 to 25 year olds, but I was a teacher in a school for a little while, secondary school for students, special educational needs.
Speaker B:And I was also a cover teacher for about a year and a half.
Speaker B:So I've worked with children all the way from.
Speaker B:I've worked with preschool children all the way up to 25 year olds, sort of the whole range.
Speaker B:And I've worked with majority of educational needs.
Speaker B:You could, you could sort of name pmld, although I believe there's an updated terminology for that now.
Speaker B:Those with again, autism, adhd, dyslexia, dyscalculia, eal.
Speaker B:I taught learners who speak English as an additional language for a little while as well.
Speaker B:So yeah, the whole range.
Speaker A:And what was that like?
Speaker A:Why did you get into that?
Speaker B:I've got into it.
Speaker B:It's a really bizarre story how I got into this.
Speaker B:When I was 18, I went to uni like most people do.
Speaker B:I had no idea what I wanted to do in my life, so I kind of just picked a random subject and went, I'll just do it at uni.
Speaker B:I picked marketing, went to uni, hated it.
Speaker B:I didn't like marketing, I didn't enjoy it, I wasn't passionate about it.
Speaker B:I didn't like my hauls.
Speaker B:None of it was really for me.
Speaker B:I had no idea what I wanted to do in my life.
Speaker B:So I dropped out, which was the scariest thing ever to tell my dad if you ever had a similar experience, but he was like, you what?
Speaker A:Definitely.
Speaker B:Anyway, I didn't know what I was going to do in my life.
Speaker B:I dropped out and I got a job around the corner and it was really random.
Speaker B:I was a cold caller and I was selling loft insulation over the phone.
Speaker B:Really bizarre thing for an 18 year old to be doing.
Speaker B:But I, I did that and obviously I was miserable, you know, it wasn't what I was passionate about.
Speaker B:I had no idea what I wanted to do.
Speaker B:So I took a buzzfeed personality quiz and the quiz at the end of it, it tells you what jobs you should be suited to.
Speaker B:It's like a career personality type quiz.
Speaker B:And it suggested for me teacher, politician or public speaker.
Speaker B:And I thought, okay, public speaking and politics may be challenging to get straight into.
Speaker B:I thought, you know what, I'm just going to try teaching, I've got nothing to lose.
Speaker B:So I moved, moved back up to where I live now and applied for a job as a teaching assistant.
Speaker B:Said how much I wanted to try teaching.
Speaker B:They gave me one class a week to teach and this is before I even started my degree obviously at this point.
Speaker B:I then ended up doing a degree in education and fell in love with it.
Speaker B:I just, I was like, this is it, this is what I want to do.
Speaker B:It was, it was amazing.
Speaker B:Like just to see the look on kids faces when you've remembered something about them or when you've asked them about something that's been bothering them or knowing that they can come to you and talk to you about things.
Speaker B:Seeing them develop, seeing them learn things, seeing them progress, seeing them become whatever they want to do and opening those doors up for them and helping them become the best version of themselves, it was just, just amazing.
Speaker B:And yeah, I just loved it and I knew that's what I wanted to do.
Speaker A:So you went like the next September you went straight into a new degree.
Speaker B:I think I had a year gap.
Speaker B:I think I had a year between.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:And then I did what's called an adult degree.
Speaker B:So I was working full time as a teaching assistant, obviously teaching as well.
Speaker B:And then I did a full time degree alongside it, but I did it in evenings and weekends.
Speaker B:So I would go to a college to do my classes and I would do the work in the evenings and weekends.
Speaker B:Basically, yes.
Speaker B:And then I did my postgrad.
Speaker A:So what was your postgrad in?
Speaker B:It's a PGCE in Post compulsory education.
Speaker B:So it's the teaching qualification to teach adults basically.
Speaker A:And how did that working with children and young people, did that elucidate and sort of enlighten your opinion and sort of views of yourself?
Speaker A:Because who.
Speaker A:I was speaking to someone the other day and we were talking about how you, they, the, the, the, the students sort of reflect back onto you aspects, not just aspects of yourself, but you can like watch them and go, that's, that's an interesting thing.
Speaker A:Or that was a mistake that you made and you acted like that.
Speaker A:And they're like little raw beings that you can view and they don't have any of the, the bullshit on them of like adulthood and complexities and things like that.
Speaker A:I mean, maybe they do, obviously they do as they get a bit older.
Speaker A:But did you find any use, was it an interesting experience to reflect on yourself whilst working with the students?
Speaker B:Yeah, absolutely, 100%.
Speaker B:I mean, being able to see it from an outsider perspective, you know, some of these conditions that obviously, you know.
Speaker B:I'd like to clarify, by the way, that at that point when I was first started working with kids, special needs, I didn't have any diagnosis.
Speaker B:I had all of the symptoms and I had no diagnosis.
Speaker B:My CPTSD diagnosis, I only got a 21, so I had none of them.
Speaker B:And my autism diagnosis I got last year, so I haven't, hadn't had any diagnosis at that point, but I had symptoms.
Speaker B:So I suppose it was beneficial in a way to be able to see it and see this is what they're struggling with and this is their diagnosis.
Speaker B:So I suppose that gives me an insight.
Speaker B:But I suppose for me, I kind of viewed it more the other way around.
Speaker B:I kind of more thought if the students are aware that the things they're struggling with, I struggle with too, they're going to feel more comfortable, they're going to feel more supportive.
Speaker B:It was more.
Speaker B:I want them to be able to learn from me and feel comfortable around me rather than me learning from them.
Speaker B:I suppose the job as a teacher, right, to be able to be a role model and to be supportive for them and that sort of thing.
Speaker A:So, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker A:It's the best bit of.
Speaker A:I had two teachers on who run a really becoming, really successful podcast on education.
Speaker A:And they were saying that if you ask most teachers, they'll say the best bit of teaching is building a relationship with students.
Speaker A:And that was, that was what I enjoyed.
Speaker A:I enjoyed helping them flesh out their personalities and move into parts of them that they weren't comfortable moving in so that they could activate more who they were.
Speaker A:So I would build like a little conceptual scheme of the students And I would say, okay, so this is, these are your.
Speaker A:It isn't even strengths and weaknesses.
Speaker A:It's like these are environments in which you, you excel in and sort of moves you're comfortable making.
Speaker A:And these are moves that you're not comfortable making.
Speaker A:And I would encourage them to try and make those moves that they weren't comfortable making.
Speaker A:And that was the goal, to try and make them more than they could be.
Speaker A:So, yeah, teaching is great and that would have really.
Speaker A:I think it would have really helped you as well, even if it was just.
Speaker B:Probably did.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Without me even realizing it.
Speaker B:It probably did.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Unconscious and covert.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:Let's.
Speaker A:I'm going to ask the final question because.
Speaker B:Go ahead.
Speaker A:We've been speaking for a long time now and it is your Thursday evening, it's called the Breaking Point podcast, because I'm interested in people's potentially lowest or even highest points.
Speaker A:Moments of extreme reflection and necessitation of like a shift change, an outlook change.
Speaker A:Can you think of a moment that was highly influential in your life and you ending up where you are now?
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker B:There are a lot.
Speaker B:There are a lot.
Speaker B:I can think of.
Speaker B:One of the biggest ones I said is, is what I said before making the decision based purely of a buzzfeed quiz, to change my whole life.
Speaker B:And that whole decision has been fantastic.
Speaker B:Such a small decision.
Speaker B:And it's, it's, yeah.
Speaker B:Changed my whole life.
Speaker B:I think that was one really for the positive.
Speaker B:There's a, there's a recent decision and it may seem small, but I think it's made quite a big impact to me.
Speaker B:One thing that you may well have the same experience or you may have the same experience when you worked with children with special educational needs, is that they, as I said previously, want to seem normal.
Speaker B:They want to blend in.
Speaker B:They don't want to seem like anything is wrong with them.
Speaker B:They don't want people to know they have a disability, all of that sort of thing.
Speaker B:And as a high functioning adult as well, when I'm going to events, I'm delivering speeches, I'm talking to customers.
Speaker B:I need to seem like I know what I'm doing and I need to seem like I'm on top of it all the time.
Speaker B:And sometimes that comes a detriment to my health.
Speaker B:We had an event recently which is called Bets, and if you're not familiar with it, quite a large event.
Speaker B:It's at the Excel in London and lots of big educating exhibitors are there.
Speaker B:We have a whole stand.
Speaker B:So I'll be delivering speeches.
Speaker B:We'll have customers come along and I'll demonstrate screens and all sorts of things like that.
Speaker B:And after the first day, I was so, so exhausted because of the sensory overload.
Speaker B:I couldn't move out the bed.
Speaker B:I literally just, just slept from about six o' clock that night.
Speaker B:As soon as I got back all the way through into the morning, I was exhausted.
Speaker B:So the next day I thought to myself, I've got to do something here.
Speaker B:I can't do this again.
Speaker B:It was a three day event.
Speaker B:I thought, I can't do this again.
Speaker B:And I wear earplugs most of the time.
Speaker B:They're called loop, you may have heard of them before.
Speaker B:They're sort of little, little ring earplugs.
Speaker B:They're quite discreet.
Speaker B:People don't usually see them.
Speaker B:But the noise cancellation is, is not enough.
Speaker B:And I was getting overwhelmed by the noise there because it was so busy.
Speaker B:And I thought, you know what, I've just got to do something here.
Speaker B:So I went to the bathroom and I thought to myself, okay, I've got two options.
Speaker B:Either I stay and I suffer and potentially have a seizure because they're caused by stress and overwhelm, or I do something that I never thought I would do and wear noise canceling ear defenders.
Speaker B:And these are ear defense, proper ear defenders that you see.
Speaker B:Like it's not huge ear defenders, right?
Speaker B:And I thought, you know what, I'm just gonna do it.
Speaker B:I'm just gonna see what happens.
Speaker B:And this is the first time I'd worn them anywhere.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker B:And I'm wearing, I've got my manager, I've got the country manager, I've got the manager of Europe, I've got 40 of my colleagues and all of the customers there and I'm delivering speeches.
Speaker B:So I went out there and I just thought, you know what, I'm just gonna do it.
Speaker B:And I wore them.
Speaker B:And the response from everyone was positive.
Speaker B:It was really positive and it was really, really nice.
Speaker B:Like, it was so supportive.
Speaker B:You know, people were asking me about it and I sort, you know, I'm sensitive to sound because I'm autistic, so that's why I wear them.
Speaker B:People were opening up to me about their own experiences and their own difficulty.
Speaker B:Like customers, you know, we're having a discussion about a product and they're talking to me about their own challenges and things that matter to them.
Speaker B:And I had someone, my colleague come to me and say that he believes he may be autistic and talking to me about how I get a diagnosis and all of this.
Speaker B:And then I had a really lovely moment, so I delivered a speech and then we took a load of customers out for dinner.
Speaker B:And quite a sort of formal dinner.
Speaker B:We had 12, 14 customers there.
Speaker B:We've got my manager, we've got a few people from head office there as well.
Speaker B:Very formal dinner.
Speaker B:We're all dressed up all nice and heels and whatever else.
Speaker B:And I thought, I can't wear them, but I'm going to have to because I'm overwhelmed.
Speaker B:I've got no choice.
Speaker B:So I thought, okay.
Speaker B:Wore them to dinner.
Speaker B:And I had a customer sat across the table from me and he said, so, so what is it about those, those headphones?
Speaker B:Why do you wear them?
Speaker B:And I explained it to him and.
Speaker B:And he told me some personal stories from his own life and it was really lovely.
Speaker B:And I said, do you know what, the way I see it, I didn't want to wear these.
Speaker B:But if you saw a person who was using a wheelchair, you wouldn't say to them, why have you got a wheelchair?
Speaker B:Why do you need that?
Speaker B:You just accept it, right?
Speaker B:But with conditions like this, you see someone wearing ear defenders and you don't, you question it.
Speaker B:You think, why are you doing that?
Speaker B:What's wrong with you?
Speaker B:That sort of thing.
Speaker B:And I thought, you know what?
Speaker B:I want to, like, I want to bring neurodiversity into that point where it's actually included because it's all, you know, go neurodiversity.
Speaker B:Until someone needs to wear massive ear defenders just to be able to function or needs to wear darker glasses just to be able to.
Speaker B:To cope with the light.
Speaker B:So I thought, you know what?
Speaker B:Actually, I want people to see that.
Speaker B:And I got a round of applause.
Speaker B:It was really, really nice.
Speaker B:Everyone was.
Speaker B:Was really supportive and really positive, and I'm really glad I made the choice.
Speaker B:It was really scary, really scary to put myself out there and be like, actually, I'm different.
Speaker B:But people are really positive and inclusive.
Speaker B:And I think as a result, a lot of people felt more comfortable to be around me and to speak to me about their own challenges, which was lovely.
