The Complexities of Modern Life & Navigating The Human Experience
The principal focus of this podcast episode revolves around the profound exploration of the human experience, particularly as articulated by our guest, Dan Boivin. He provides an insightful discourse on the challenges individuals face in navigating their emotional landscapes and the complexities of modern life. Boyvin elucidates his journey, marked by struggles with mental health and the quest for authenticity, and how these experiences inform his podcast, "Unapologetically Human." This episode delves into the intricate relationship between personal trauma and broader societal issues, positing that many of our challenges are interconnected. Through honest dialogue, we aim to foster a deeper understanding of what it means to be human in an increasingly chaotic world, encouraging listeners to engage with their own narratives and the narratives of others.
Takeaways:
- The podcast discusses the profound complexities of the human experience, emphasizing the importance of understanding oneself and others in an increasingly chaotic world.
- Dan Boyvin, the guest, highlights his personal struggles with mental health and the significance of addressing emotional challenges for personal growth.
- The conversation explores the necessity of acknowledging the duality of human experiences, where positives and negatives coexist, creating a balanced understanding of life.
- The episode underscores the role of creativity and artistic expression as vital tools for processing emotions and navigating life's challenges.
- A key theme presented is the notion that many societal issues stem from individual emotional struggles, emphasizing the interconnectedness of personal and collective experiences.
- The dialogue encourages listeners to confront their fears and motivations, asserting that understanding one's 'why' is essential for overcoming obstacles and achieving personal goals.
Transcript
Hello, everyone.
Speaker A:Welcome back to another episode of the Breaking Point Podcast UK Today.
Speaker A:We're here with Dan Boyvin.
Speaker A:And I'm not really sure I don't know much about you, Dan, to be honest.
Speaker A:So we're in sort of.
Speaker A:We're in unknown territory here for me.
Speaker A:So tell the people what you are promoting philosophically, psychologically, what, what, whatever.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's.
Speaker B:That's a big, big question.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Thank.
Speaker B:Thank you for having me on.
Speaker B:Thank you for the invite, of course.
Speaker B:I guess you're welcome.
Speaker B:I guess I'll.
Speaker B:I'll start out just kind of saying so because this is a.
Speaker B:Where we're really getting to know each other here.
Speaker B:You're somewhat unfamiliar to me as well, but we met through a coaching program that we had both joined just briefly on a call to one day.
Speaker B:And you have a podcast.
Speaker B:I have a podcast.
Speaker B:I'm the host of Unapologetically Human with Dan Boyvin, and I always say at the start of each episode of my show that it's a podcast that's about trying to understand myself, trying to understand other people, and trying to understand this crazy world that we live in, crazy modern world that seems to be getting crazier and crazier each and every day.
Speaker B:And it's so.
Speaker B:It's broad.
Speaker B:I don't have necessarily concise philosophical perspective.
Speaker B:It's really about just kind of trying to understand how to be human in the modern world as we're.
Speaker B:Many of us are having a quite a challenging time with that, obviously.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:No, we are.
Speaker A:So what.
Speaker A:Talk about the unapologetically human.
Speaker A:What, what, what would you, what do you discuss on that podcast?
Speaker B:Well, when I first.
Speaker B:It's kind of discussing.
Speaker B:I mean, it obviously depends on the guests that I have on, of course, but it's really just a kind of a broad set of topics of discussion of what it means to be human, the human experience, what are the challenges that the world is faced with right now?
Speaker B:What are the challenges that we are faced with as individuals?
Speaker B:And, you know, how.
Speaker B:How might we come to an understanding of those to work towards solutions?
Speaker B:That's kind of like a broad kind of picture of what it's about, because basically it.
Speaker B:It's kind of an extension of myself and I have a lot of different interests.
Speaker B:And so it's really about just trying to understand the world and understand humans.
Speaker B:And it's kind of everything you can imagine could be a topic of conversation, depending on who I'm speaking with.
Speaker B:But yeah, it really was kind of born out of as we, we Discussed kind of briefly on the call that we had together that, you know, you've experienced some challenges with your mental health in the past.
Speaker B:I've experienced some challenges with my mental health in my past, and that's a big part of what the podcast is about and why it's called unapologetically human.
Speaker B:It's kind of, you know, trying to look at ourselves and look at the world, not with this shiny social media showing all the only the good things, perspective.
Speaker B:It's kind of showing my own personal story and struggles and challenges and the struggles and challenges that we're faced with collectively.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:Yeah, to just be real, to be.
Speaker B:To be open, to be honest, to be authentic about some of the ugliness that comes along with being human, as well as how we can get from, you know, where we want to be or where we are to where we want to be in a lot of ways.
Speaker A:So how do you see, in your sort of own perspective, how do you think you see the world, and what do you think some of the biggest issues are?
Speaker A:And do you have any theories as to why those issues exist?
Speaker B:Yeah, well, big, big topics.
Speaker B:Big questions.
Speaker B:Big topics.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Because.
Speaker B:Well, I mean, there's so much to it, right?
Speaker B:Like, we could talk about so many things.
Speaker B:We could go in a million different directions.
Speaker B:But I guess, yeah, I'll.
Speaker B:I'll start with a little bit of my history to, I guess, like, try to maybe weave my way through to some of the bigger issues that we're faced with, because I think.
Speaker B:I think it's.
Speaker B:It's largely related, but, you know, something I want to speak to as well, that's kind of in line with the unapologetically human perspective that I take about myself in the world.
Speaker B:It's like, know when you asked me to come on the podcast, I.
Speaker B:I have some things that I'm struggling with right now.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And I have sort of this sense of how I should be or how it should be as far as a guest coming on a podcast.
Speaker B:A lot of times the stories that we hear, like, I love.
Speaker B:I love conversations.
Speaker B:I love listening to people's stories.
Speaker B:And a lot of times we.
Speaker B:We, you know, we gravitate towards these people and stories that we find inspiring.
Speaker B:The, you know, the hero's journey of where they've been and what they went through and where they are now, what they built now and what they're advocating for now.
Speaker B:And I'm in a space right now with a variety of things that I'm like, I'm.
Speaker B:I'm not I'm not here to necessarily tell a story about.
Speaker B:Yeah, there's elements of.
Speaker B:Of this, but like a story of, like, here's where I was and here's where I went through, and here's where I am now and kind of like this story of triumph.
Speaker B:It's like.
Speaker B:Well, I.
Speaker B:I'm actually struggling with some things right now, and, you know, because those are really present for me right now.
Speaker B:You know, I'm.
Speaker B:I'm dealing with a breakup.
Speaker B:I'm dealing with some health issues, and I've.
Speaker B:I've kind of always in my life struggled a lot with the jobs I've had with kind of feeling kind of meaninglessness and purposelessness, something obviously Jordan Peterson talks about a lot.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:I listened to a couple of your episodes and heard you mention him a couple times, so that's a tangent we can go on.
Speaker B:Yeah, there's.
Speaker B:There's been a lot of things in my life that I have struggled greatly with.
Speaker B:And it really started from, you know, I have a family history of bipolar disorder, mental illness, kind of more generally addiction, abuse, and, you know, most like.
Speaker B:I don't know much about my family history on either my mom or my dad's side, but what I do know is, is quite terrible things and, you know, the idea that hurt people, hurt people.
Speaker B:And so my.
Speaker B:My parents did the best they could, and they certainly did better than.
Speaker B:Than their parents did and with the skills that they had, but they still had a lot of shortcomings.
Speaker B:And I have spent a lot of time, particularly from my late teen years until.
Speaker B:Until present, trying to kind of mop up the mess that my.
Speaker B:My childhood has kind of left me with as a trauma survivor.
Speaker B:And, you know, I've.
Speaker B:I've been.
Speaker B:I've been doing therapy on and off since about 17, periodically, but somewhat consistently.
Speaker B:And I've been, especially in recent years, I've been doing a lot of.
Speaker B:A lot of personal, professional growth programs and programs trying to understand trauma and how to treat it and things of that nature.
Speaker B:And, you know, that goes to that bigger picture of my story and the things I'm interested in learning and then sharing my story.
Speaker B:Because so many of the larger issues that we see in the world are essentially kind of like the downstream effects of tens and hundreds and millions, billions of people having these same types of struggles.
Speaker B:Because, you know, the.
Speaker B:The modern world really doesn't make it easy to get our most basic needs as humans met in.
Speaker B:In a lot of ways.
Speaker B:And so, yeah, I've got quite a deep family history of trauma and Mental illness and addiction.
Speaker B:And even in my immediate family still, like two out of my mom's three brothers are homo, drug addicts.
Speaker B:And just a.
Speaker B:A lot of struggles throughout my life that I've been trying to understand and heal from and.
Speaker B:And work towards the things that I would like to see in my own life.
Speaker B:And you know, as far as things I would like to see in the world and trying to start a business in.
Speaker B:In certain things, like I'm a.
Speaker B:I have my podcast, but I'm also an artist.
Speaker B:I like to do art in a couple different forms and I have some entrepreneurial aspirations of things that I would like to do with that.
Speaker B:But you know, not, not quite, quite there yet.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker B:Yeah, no, that's, That's.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's.
Speaker A:No, that was a lot of information.
Speaker A:I appreciate you for being humanist about that.
Speaker A:And I think all, all the people that we see online that are most.
Speaker A:Pretty much all of them that are proclaiming like they've been to a hard place, now they're here.
Speaker A:They're still.
Speaker A:They're still.
Speaker A:Everyone's in a hard place in some ways.
Speaker A:And that's not to decrease how difficult some people's lives can be.
Speaker A:But anyone who says they've got it all worked out and they know exactly what they're doing, it's not true.
Speaker A:It's not true at all.
Speaker A:Yeah, and there's even.
Speaker A:There's a.
Speaker A:Definitely a psychological phenomena where the more and more you claim that you're something, the more you actually on the secret are the thing that your clay that you are sort of casting aspersions at and putting hate on.
Speaker A:So when people acknowledge.
Speaker A:I always think, when I talk to someone who acknowledges a part of themselves or acknowledges their flaws, not.
Speaker A:I'm saying that that's what you've done, but I just mean I always think, yeah, okay, so I can trust you then because you're actually someone who knows what's there, who is open to themselves and open to the truth, as opposed to just sort of living in a projection of who they think they are.
Speaker A:So I appreciate you saying that and I get it.
Speaker A:I, you know, we're all.
Speaker A:I struggle with things now and I've got mental health issues in the family.
Speaker A:Not quite to the degree that you have, but.
Speaker A:So I, I can't understand that completely, but I can do my best to empathize with that.
Speaker A:And, you know, and you should, you know, it sounds like you're working and doing really well and not letting your past or your generational past define you as a person and you're trying to move forward by helping other people through the podcast.
Speaker A:So, yeah, I think that was that everything you said there, you know, fair play to you.
Speaker A:Good on you.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker A:That's all right.
Speaker A:Of course, man.
Speaker A:What sort of art do you like to do when you say artist?
Speaker B:Yeah, so I, I've, I've done a lot of different jobs in my life.
Speaker B:I've just kind of always worked jobs.
Speaker B:I hated school when I was younger.
Speaker B:I was your typical.
Speaker B:Like, if I was, you know, if I grew up 10 to 15 years later, I would have been probably given a diagnosis of ADHD and put on Ritalin for being the class clown and always horsing around and not paying attention because I didn't want to be sitting at a desk for, you know, the whole day shutting my mouth and.
Speaker B:Yeah, so I kind of hated school in my life, and I barely made it out of high school, but I did eventually.
Speaker B:You know, one of the stories that we have heard, I don't know how old you are.
Speaker B:I just turned 37.
Speaker B:And, you know, one of the stories that we heard in society in general, but I certainly heard from my parents because they both dropped out of school in grade 10 and have just kind of been like factory workers mostly in their, in their life, is that you, you better make sure that you go to college or university to be able to get an education, to get a good job.
Speaker B:So I tried to follow that path.
Speaker B:I, I was at a high school for a few years, and then I decided to go to college for an art and design fundamentals program with the, the plan of getting into graphic design.
Speaker B:So I did that, got into graphic design.
Speaker B:I did a, a year of that program.
Speaker B: And this was back in around: Speaker B:And I'm, I'm in my early 20s at this point, and this is all sort of.
Speaker B:It's almost like every aspect of myself and my life is kind of wrapped up in the, in the podcast and in everything that I want to do.
Speaker B:So it, it, I, and I just, I, I tend to.
Speaker B:I go on, on tangents a lot, but it's hard for me not to.
Speaker B:So good because even in, in answering your question, it's like, well, there's all these pieces that are, like, integral to it.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, basically, like, so I, I.
Speaker B:Art and design fundamentals and graphic design.
Speaker B:And then the global financial collapse happens, and I ended up dropping out of college because I got way more interested in politics and social issues and was kind of like what I was, what I felt like I was being taught was that the, the, the pathway for jobs outside of school when doing graphic design is to kind of like be almost like be an advertiser.
Speaker B:It's like you're going to make designs to help companies sell mostly shit that people don't need to them primarily by making them feel bad about themselves, like they'll feel better if they buy this product.
Speaker B:And I kind of was like, man, fuck this.
Speaker B:And you know, because the global financial collapse happened, I felt like what I was seeing on the news around that time was almost like this narrative from all of the different channels and stations.
Speaker B:And it was kind of like this apocalyptic Armageddon type of language because, you know, the, the, the housing crisis essentially is what precipitated what almost became a collapse of the global financial system.
Speaker B:And so I just, I was, I was looking at that while I was in school and already sort of humming and ha.
Speaker B:About if I wanted to stay in that program.
Speaker B:And then I got way more interested in, in what was going on with that because I was kind of asking myself like, well A, what really is going on?
Speaker B:And B, I had this question that just like nagged at me like, isn't it some or many people's jobs very specifically to make sure that things like this don't happen?
Speaker B:Why did this happen?
Speaker B:How did it happen?
Speaker B:Who's responsible?
Speaker B:And it came to a point where we understood a lot of those answers that, you know, there's a lot of incompetence and people make mistakes, of course, but there were people that did things that were responsible for almost the destruction of the global economy, global financial system, and really the true destruction of like a lot of people's lives who took on these loans and mortgages that they ultimately couldn't afford and that, that led to this collapse and just really questioning like who's in charge of this system of the world that we're living in essentially.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And so when it comes to being an artist, you know, I, I got some art training in school.
Speaker B:I like to, I don't do it very often, but I like to paint kind of like graffiti style, abstract space paintings and stuff like that has been kind of my go to.
Speaker B:I do that a little bit primarily.
Speaker B:I make digital art on my phone.
Speaker B:I make really cool psychedelic type of artwork.
Speaker B:That's a, you know, psychedelics is a, is a massive conversation of interest for.
Speaker B:To possibly touch on.
Speaker B:But I also like to make kind of like portraits of like digitally with like a few different apps on my phone.
Speaker B:Cool, psychedelic, really vibrant colored like pet portraits and stuff like that.
Speaker B:Those are some of the things that I am kind of in the process of.
Speaker B:I want to actually build a business and get a store up to sell my art and things like that.
Speaker B:But, you know, part of the reason that I joined the program with Jesper is, and a lot of the programs I've done in recent years is trying to understand the challenges that I have in my life in order to move forward and take action on the things that I want to create.
Speaker B:And why do I stop myself in taking those actions?
Speaker B:How do I stop myself?
Speaker B:Yeah, so that's something that I'm one of those things that I'm, I'm challenged with right now because it's like I've, I've done all this work and still I allow myself to be stuck in bad habits and kind of, you know, stories that are not helpful for me to move forward in my life in certain ways.
Speaker B:But I also have been taking some online music production courses.
Speaker B:So I like to sing, I can, I can rap, I like to rap.
Speaker B:And I've been trying to learn like music production.
Speaker B:So I'm working on an alpha right now.
Speaker B:So a lot of different things, but the, the common thread that sort of stitches together my, my interests and most of the things that I want to do is this bigger sort of story and perspective of how do we understand and overcome the adversity that we experience in life as individuals and how does that create the larger problems that we're seeing in the world?
Speaker B:And how can we use art?
Speaker B:How can I use various forms of artwork that I'm inclined to gravitate towards in order to address those questions and to be honest and be open and authentic in kind of sharing my own stories and experiences through that as well.
Speaker A:Yeah, I think you've, you've.
Speaker A:I love the way you use story.
Speaker A:Like one of the things that Jordan Peterson taught me and that I, I've sort of read up on a bit since hearing is the way that we see the world through a story.
Speaker A:And like once we almost every single, like anxiety, depression, obviously they have a neuro neurological or maybe not.
Speaker A:They have a psychological and a biological undertone, but they also have like a narrative undertone.
Speaker A:And you imagine that depression push to the absolute extreme is, I guess never getting out of bed, under the covers, curled up, scared of everything, you know, like an agoraphobic might be.
Speaker A:That's like the peak of the story of depression.
Speaker A:And then anxiety is kind of the anxiety is kind of the same thing, like, paralyzed by fear, can't be able to do anything.
Speaker A:And, you know, some people, maybe a lot of people I have been in, I've felt that way before in the past.
Speaker A:And it's an incredibly paralyzing and debilitating state to be in.
Speaker A:And then.
Speaker A:But I feel like that's kind of like we have, like an archetypal structure of those phenomenons almost built into us, maybe.
Speaker A:And occasionally we drop into the extremes, and then the journey through life is to put things in place and habits and people and connections in place that bring us away from, like, that sort of dark pit that in theory, anyone can fall into.
Speaker A:And just because you have fallen into it doesn't really, in a way, it's kind of an advantage, because it's not.
Speaker A:But maybe you can see if you change your perspective because you become aware of what the worst case scenario is in some ways, and then you have this kind of knowledge of.
Speaker A:It would be great to not feel like this for everyone, and it would be great to create a world where no one felt like this at all.
Speaker A:So you can put things in place for yourself that regulate you and keep you in psychological check.
Speaker A:And then that's what I kind of think a lot of the point of life is.
Speaker A:In some ways, it's finding out what regulates you as an individual, because everyone's regulated by different things.
Speaker A:There are some things that regulate us that are pleasurable in the moment, and they're not necessarily so sustainable in the long run.
Speaker A:And there are things that are more meaningful, and they.
Speaker A:And they regulate you.
Speaker A:And that's kind of what I would recommend anyone who's struggling to do is try and find some beneficial, beneficially productive things that you think regulate you.
Speaker A:Hence why I'm doing this podcast and a couple of other things.
Speaker A:And music is a great one, and obviously art is a great one for you.
Speaker A:I don't really like art, but I like music.
Speaker A:I do like art, but I'm not.
Speaker A:I was never good at it as a kid.
Speaker B:I mean, like, like, you.
Speaker B:You don't like creating it, but you like art.
Speaker B:As in, like, you like seeing cool pictures and colorful.
Speaker A:Yes, I'm very.
Speaker B:Photography.
Speaker A:Yeah, no, I probably do, like.
Speaker A:I probably give it a bad rap.
Speaker A:I just wasn't.
Speaker B:Anyway, I get the sentiment, you know, like, when I went.
Speaker B:When I was a kid, I never considered myself to be an artist.
Speaker B:The fact that I ended up going to college for Art and Design Fundamentals and Graphic design was a little bit weird, actually, because I never I never really liked drawing.
Speaker B:I would doodle and I would typically doodle more kind of like abstractly.
Speaker B:But I never considered myself to be like, a good drawer.
Speaker B:And the reason I actually chose to go to school for that was because there was sort of like, like maybe three reasons.
Speaker B:Like, when, when I was in high school, I used to come home from school and I would go in Photoshop and I would just play around in Photoshop making weird abstract stuff with all the, all the different tools that you could use.
Speaker B:Like, yeah, like, I was never like a hand artist.
Speaker B:Like, I didn't really paint, I didn't really draw.
Speaker B:I, I couldn't like, draw a picture or like a person or like a dog or something.
Speaker B:And a lot of the, you know, negative or limiting beliefs in that realm were present for me as, like, I'm not a good drawer.
Speaker B:Like, I'm not an artist.
Speaker B:Because, like, when I, when I did go to school, the people that I went to school with, like, a lot of them were like, mindblowingly talented as far as like, drawing and doing amazing realistic stuff and painting, being illustrators and just having like, a true, like, passion and a love for it.
Speaker B:But yeah, I also did.
Speaker B:I had to do I.
Speaker B:Well, like, I, I chose as an elective, when I was in high school, I think in grade 11, I had like a computer art class and I thought that was pretty cool.
Speaker B:And part of the reason I, I decided to go for, for graphic design was I really love, you know, I, I always have been sort of lost in my life and that's part of my story and part of my journey.
Speaker B:And in certain ways I have, you know, found myself or made progress on, on certain axes, but I'm still totally lost on.
Speaker B:On other axes.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And that's just, that's not, that's not unique we.
Speaker B:That, you know, everyone, I think could.
Speaker B:No, not in some way, but a couple of the things that I knew that I really had like a love for was music and I loved extreme sports and because I enjoyed nice kind of working with like, the digital kind of art, Photoshop side of things.
Speaker B:There's a couple things in, in this computer art class that I did in high school, I was like, I think maybe I'll go to school for graphic design and I will get a job doing kind of like editorial layout magazine for like, either a music magazine or an extreme sports magazine.
Speaker B:Because those are both things that I love and that's a job that I could maybe see myself doing.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:But yeah, it's, it's Definitely.
Speaker B:Like you're saying that, that sense of like not being an artist or liking creating art, it's like I feel like everyone, you know, all, all human beings are creative to different degrees and, and everyone's a, you know, an artist in, in some way.
Speaker B:I think it's just about kind of finding the avenue for you to express your creativity through like, like your podcast even.
Speaker B:That's, that's an avenue.
Speaker B:Like you're, you're a creator, you're creating something, right?
Speaker B:And it's like you're, you're, your canvas is, you know, the, the, the, the open conversation and it's like your, your paintbrushes are like your, your words sort of.
Speaker B:Obviously it's abstract, but.
Speaker A:No, no, that, that's, yeah, the, the, the emotional sort of revelations and conversations are the artwork on the canvas.
Speaker A:I think that's why maybe I didn't like art too much growing up because I thought it was a bit limited and a bit like two dimensional, whereas I thought music was, there was more substance to music, but also like, I didn't grow up in a household that sort of respected art at all, like, but I did grow up in a household that like music and I generally was pretty bad at art.
Speaker A:I used, I'm left handed and I, I hold the pencil really badly, so I think kind of smudging and stuff.
Speaker B:Yeah, smudging with your hair.
Speaker A:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker A:Um, yeah.
Speaker A:So you post a lot on Instagram as I.
Speaker A:As in, you put a lot of stories up.
Speaker B:I do, yes.
Speaker A:What, what do you, what are you kind of using Instagram as a platform for?
Speaker B:I think I would say in the realm of some of the challenges that I have like, spoken to as far as, like, things I'm working on or things that I, I'm struggling with, like wanting to create a business or this or that.
Speaker B:I think Instagram is, and social media and the Internet in general.
Speaker B:My phone, whether it's on the phone or computer, is more of advice and a hindrance to distract me from the challenges and the complexities of actually working on and addressing solving the real kind of challenges I have in my life.
Speaker B:Because, you know, throughout my, my teenage years and my, and my, my early 30s even, I, you know, I, I've been, I've been diagnosed with depression and generalized anxiety disorder and complex ptsd, and I have never taken other than a stint.
Speaker B:In the last few years, I tried a few different medications to see if maybe they would help, but I never, I never took medications because I, I didn't want to for A variety of reasons.
Speaker B:And I had some family members that did and they didn't like the, the side effects and whatnot.
Speaker B:I also had some doctors tell me, like, if you're one in particular that really stuck with me when I was younger, saying, like, if you're able to kind of hold down a job and a relationship with a partner and friends and like decently with your family, then, you know, don't go on medication unless you have to.
Speaker B:Because for most people it's kind of like a life sentence.
Speaker B:Like once you start, you gotta stay on it.
Speaker B:And that of course, whether you struggle with mental health or not, we all have to do the same things.
Speaker B:And we all know what those things are, but we, we struggle to do them in whatever realms that we do.
Speaker B:But in order to be healthy as a human, we need to eat healthy food, eat less unhealthy food, exercise and do self care things that are helpful.
Speaker B:It's meditation, maybe it's journaling, spending time with friends or loved ones, doing things that you are interested in and care about that bring you joy.
Speaker B:And there's this, all these, all these things that we, we know that we need to do in order to be healthy for our mental health and our physical health.
Speaker B:Many of us don't do those things.
Speaker B:And the reason that we don't do those things lies in the realm of emotional problems.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Like, one of the programs that I did that I've talked about on my podcast a few times, it was very focused on how to understand and heal from childhood trauma and understand that as humans we have four parts of us, we have physical, intellectual, spiritual and emotional.
Speaker B:And that three out of the four of those will progress and grow to, you know, a healthier or lesser degree, but they will kind of grow no matter what.
Speaker B:Like, as you grow, you're going to, even if you're malnut, like have malnutrition, you're still generally going to grow.
Speaker B:Your body's going to get bigger, your, your physical aspects, you're, you're going to grow even if you're not getting everything that you need.
Speaker B:Your intellectual aspect, you're gonna learn as you go.
Speaker B:Whether you're getting the best education or not.
Speaker B:You're gonna pick things up, you're gonna, your, your intelligence is going to expand as you grow older and, and have more experiences and the, the spiritual aspect of our nature.
Speaker B:As you learn and you grow and experience, you're going to develop a set of values and a, you know, set of ideas and beliefs about the world, about yourself, about other People about the, you know, the universe or reality, whether that be a belief in God or a belief in science.
Speaker B:You're.
Speaker B:You're going to develop a set of values in some type of spirituality as a human, because that's so core to who we are.
Speaker B:But what really, where people get stuck and how people get stuck is in the realm of the emotions.
Speaker B:And because of the way that the human brain develops, especially through the most formative years of childhood.
Speaker B:Basically, it's like if bad things happen that shouldn't happen, that's going to cause problems.
Speaker B:If the good things that you need to happen don't happen, that's gonna cause problems.
Speaker B:And those problems lie almost strictly not, not entirely because, you know, we're our entire system.
Speaker B:Our body, our mind, our psyche, our physical health, our mental health.
Speaker B:They're obviously, they're all intertwined, but it's where people get stuck.
Speaker B:And this is true of me still, despite having done all this work and having all this awareness around it, it doesn't necessarily necessarily aware.
Speaker B:Well, awareness doesn't like, change behavior.
Speaker B:It's only essentially practicing new skills that over time change behavior.
Speaker B:And that's an area where I have challenges.
Speaker B:But that, yeah, it's like if you don't get what you need and all sorts of things that shouldn't happen to a kid growing up happen, then we essentially get stuck in an immature emotional state in a variety of ways.
Speaker B:And that's why, you know, one of the best examples that I use that's easiest to understand is like, I don't believe for the most part there's like, there's not a single person who wants to lose weight, for instance, who doesn't understand what they need to do in order to lose weight.
Speaker B:It's not an intellectual problem.
Speaker B:The, the problem lies entirely in the realm of the emotions.
Speaker B:It's like when you have heightened emotions, that's when you comfort, eat, that's when you eat junk food to suit.
Speaker B:Even though intellectually you know that if you want to lose weight, you want to be healthier, you need to exercise and eat healthier, but then you don't do it and the don't doing of all the things that we want and need to do in our life is almost entirely in the realm of, of emotional problems and emotional immaturity kind of.
Speaker B:I think that.
Speaker B:So that, you know, in the realm of like a philosophy for me, it's like that is true for me for almost everything that I struggle with in life that that is, is so present in these, like, these bigger issues.
Speaker B:That we're seeing in society.
Speaker B:You know, even just explaining under the context of like, well, we, we have so many people are fighting and so many conflicts are so intractable because it's kind of like everyone's like, are so many of the people that are the most vocal are, they're kind of stuck emotionally and intellectually in some ways at like an adolescent level, essentially, like they're not able to calmly discuss differences of opinion or debate ideas without getting triggered and then into an emotional state and then reacting from an emotional state and then like the problems end up getting worse rather than being able to come to solutions.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So it shows up for us as individuals and then it shows up for us in communities and in the world as well.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:But to go back to how I use Instagram, so I have a lot in my life, I have smoked weed and drank.
Speaker B:Not like an alcohol.
Speaker B:I've never considered myself to be an alcoholic, but I certainly have recognized that I have used alcohol as a coping mechanism to deal with the stress in my life.
Speaker B:And I've, I've also used my phone and social media.
Speaker B:Like, we know that they're developed to be addictive to get us to stay on because our ATT capturing our attention is the business model.
Speaker B:That's how they make ad revenue by keeping us on the platforms and whatnot.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So in recent years, I, I've actually done some programs as a patient to kind of deal with mental health and addiction related things.
Speaker B:And I, I haven't had a sip of alcohol or a puff of cigarette or of marijuana or any like weed products since like last March, like, like this past March.
Speaker A:Nice.
Speaker A:Well done, man.
Speaker B:So, so, yeah, so that's great.
Speaker B:But I definitely recognize that I, I use my phone because it's an easy dopamine hit.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:It's like you go on Instagram.
Speaker B:You go on Instagram.
Speaker B:Well, I go on Instagram.
Speaker B:Obviously it's the case for many people and of course it's addictive.
Speaker B:It's like, well, you kind of get some news on there of what's going on in the world from accounts you follow, but there's every single thing.
Speaker B:And the algorithm feeds it to you because it learns what you like and then feeds you what you like.
Speaker B:But it's like you go on and there's cool art and your friends.
Speaker B:So there's a social, there is a social aspect and I do use it for communication a lot.
Speaker B:But then that's how like sometimes you go on because you're like, oh, I just want to Go and message Ollie something, and then suddenly you're on Instagram for an hour and you're like, what the fuck happened?
Speaker A:Like, yeah, I know, exactly.
Speaker B:And, and so, yeah, like, I would.
Speaker B:I would say I use it for some good reasons and I use it to promote my art a bit and promote my podcast a bit, but primarily I'm.
Speaker B:I'm just sort of find myself on there.
Speaker B:And then I post a lot because I like to share.
Speaker B:I do.
Speaker B:The reason I post a lot is it's an.
Speaker B:It's an outlet for me to share myself and share my thoughts and share my interests and to, to express myself.
Speaker B:I think.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's.
Speaker B:It's challenging because for a lot of people, myself included, we.
Speaker B:We kind of live online on these apps now and we don't have.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:It's so much harder for.
Speaker B:For me and for so many people to meet the, the needs for communication and connection and socializing with people in real life.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:Like, I, I work long hours at my job.
Speaker B:I, I come home and.
Speaker B:And this is actually, you know, a story that I've been wrapped up in for years.
Speaker B:This is like.
Speaker B:This is one of my stories that I know is a story, but it's almost like, again, it's like the awareness doesn't necessarily make it easier to kind of get out from underneath it because there's all sorts of, like, psychological things going on that are attached to this, but it basically goes like this.
Speaker B:It's that, you know, even for jobs that I haven't worked as long hours as.
Speaker B:As I.
Speaker B:I currently work, and I also have a long commute.
Speaker B:It's like I work and when I get home, I gotta make myself dinner, clean, take my dog out, do a bit of chores, like just regular life that, you know, I need to do, people need to do.
Speaker B:Geez, Outside of that, I don't have time.
Speaker B:I don't have energy to.
Speaker B:To work on my art business or I have five episodes of my podcast recorded and I haven't put one out in a while because I haven't prioritized making the time to work on them because, well, isn't that story so much easier to.
Speaker B:It's like placing a problem that I know that I have.
Speaker B:It's not unique, but I certainly have.
Speaker B:It is placing blame on the external.
Speaker B:Placing the, the locus of control of my life on external factors and external forces rather, because that's.
Speaker B:That's easier.
Speaker B:Of course, it's easier to do that than to take on the responsibility of managing my time better and Prioritizing to work towards actually making progress on my goals and whatnot.
Speaker B:And it's, it's so easy to go on Instagram and consume, consume, consume, and it's this easy dopamine hit.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:So, yeah, that's obviously, it's not unique, but it's.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's a form of procrastination, isn't it?
Speaker A:It's a form of, you know, we now, we all know, we now know that we only have so much, you know, willpower.
Speaker A:And the more and more when we use it up, when our tank's empty, to do things that we know we need to do but we don't really want to do, it gets more and more difficult to do.
Speaker A:And as you said, you laid out, you know, a long day ahead of you a lot, a long day that you have.
Speaker A:And then you're right, you've got to do all these things.
Speaker A:To think.
Speaker A:If I've got any practical, like, advice that helps me.
Speaker A:Well, I like the story that Jordan Peterson, a few other people have said about the rats in a cage and how if you get a rat to pull on a lever or to get a.
Speaker A:If you dangle, if you put a block of cheese on one side of a cage and then you tie a rat's tail to a lever and it will say it's been starved a bit, so it's really hungry, it will run as fast as it can or pretty fast to try and get to the cheese.
Speaker A:But then if you waft some cat smell in on the other side, it will run even faster because it's got something pulling it and it's got something almost pushing it.
Speaker A:It's got two drives acting on it.
Speaker A:So I would say, you know, the next time you don't upload an episode, the next time you record one, you'll have six to upload rather than five.
Speaker A:So if you, if you, if you upload, if you edit and upload one, then you'll still have five rather than having six.
Speaker A:And that's the thing is these things, they start off like small things and you just go like, that's one thing.
Speaker A:I feel like I've gotten better in the last few years of my life is watching my brain and watching a little sort of like a flicker or something spark up and go, right, track that ollie.
Speaker A:Because if you follow that path down the road, the worst case.
Speaker A:But you know, we talked about the road depression earlier.
Speaker A:Like, if you follow that little spark down the road, things get.
Speaker A:Things may get pretty.
Speaker A:I mean, the worst case scenario, they Might not be too good.
Speaker A:Oftentimes just stupid stuff.
Speaker A:So it's like, if you can try your best.
Speaker A:I always think that keeping on top of things, I feel better because I know that I'm controlling my environment, and that makes me feel more emotionally stable.
Speaker A:And you're just.
Speaker A:But then my temperament.
Speaker A:I'm kind of lucky in that my temperament is very orderly, and I don't really have to work very hard at making sure everything's in its right place.
Speaker A:Because if it's not in its right place.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:All I can see is that it's not in its right place.
Speaker A:That's what springs out to me first when I see something.
Speaker A:But.
Speaker A:Yeah, I know, I know.
Speaker A:I know what you mean.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:It is challenging.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Well, and one of the things with me is I'm not orderly.
Speaker B:I'm very like.
Speaker B:I like to.
Speaker B:I, you know, I've struggled with depression.
Speaker A:That's because you're an artist, right?
Speaker B:Well, yeah.
Speaker B:And I, you know, I've shown with depression in the past, which is kind of like, you know, having a focus on the past.
Speaker B:And I've struggled with anxiety quite a bit, which is like having a focus on.
Speaker B:On the future.
Speaker B:And so I have spent a lot of times kind of in those spaces mentally.
Speaker B:But I actually do like to be in the present moment a lot of the time.
Speaker B:Like, I like to just sort of like, do things and do whatever I feel like on a whim in the moment.
Speaker B:But then, of course, that doesn't lend well to actually preparing a plan of action to work towards a goal for the future.
Speaker B:You know, some.
Speaker A:There.
Speaker B:There are some deeply ingrained things within me or that.
Speaker B:That's a deeply ingrained sort of set of challenges because of not having developed that skill from a young age.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And so, you know, like the.
Speaker B:The.
Speaker B:The mouse and the cheese and the cat.
Speaker B:That idea of having not only the goal to work towards the vision for the future, but then having the.
Speaker B:The fear of staying the same or being in the same place, you know, a year or five years down the road, having those dual kind of mental tools to both pull you toward and to push you away from are obviously good.
Speaker B:And this is the thing.
Speaker B:And it.
Speaker B:It goes back to that being in the realm of.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:I've done literally so much therapy and so many different personal professional growth programs in the last few years that there's not at all an intellectual lack of understanding both what's going on, what's going on with me, or what I need to do in a lot of Ways and also, you know, one of the, like, something related to what you're saying.
Speaker B:One of the, one of the sort of tools or concepts that is constantly with me it's related to like the, the cat and the mouse thing is just that, yeah, like, you need to, you need to have your vision, but you need to have a really clear understanding of why you want to do the things that you want to do, because we have all of these.
Speaker B:And, and this is again, like, related to like, my biggest struggle is that there, there are all sorts of survival mechanisms that we have as human beings that stop us from doing the things we want to do because we're afraid of what other people think.
Speaker B:We're un.
Speaker B:Afraid of being judged or making mistakes and looking stupid and, and all those, all those types of things and standing out and, you know, if you rock the boat or if you're the nail that stands above the others, then you're the one that's going to get knocked down by other people and whatnot.
Speaker B:So these are all like, deeply, deeply, deeply ingrained at the deepest level.
Speaker B:They, they can be in our, our physiology and our psychology because ultimately the fear of rejection going back, you know, 10,000 or however many thousands of years, the fear of rejection is the fear of being banished from the tribe.
Speaker B:And if you're banished from the tribe, that's essentially a death sentence because nature is deadly and other.
Speaker B:There's predators out there and stuff.
Speaker B:So it's like that, that's something that I, you know, I, I like to think about for myself.
Speaker B:And I want people to understand that the, the reasons that we stop ourselves from doing these things and we get wrapped up in our stories and stuff like that is because even if we don't like the place that we're in, there's a part of us that thinks by keeping us small, it's keeping us in our comfort zone and it's keeping us safe from the danger of rejection and banishment and.
Speaker B:Or something worse.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So it's just, it's the survival mechanisms that we contend with as humans, especially as artists or entrepreneurs or.
Speaker B:It's almost like anything that you want to create in your life that requires effort of some sort and challenge to learn and grow and go outside of your comfort zone is going to be met with these survival mechanisms essentially to kind of keep us feeling small and safe, essentially.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker B:And so you, for your vision, you have to know the reason why you want to do these things that you want to do.
Speaker B:And the why has to be big enough to overcome Those survival mechanisms.
Speaker B:And so for me, something that I think of a.
Speaker B:A lot and it's good to have conversations with, with people like you about this or friends, if I talk to them about this, is that whenever you revert back to.
Speaker B:Or whenever I revert back to bad habits or poor coping mechanisms to deal with stresses that I'm dealing with or wasting time doing that I know I ultimately shouldn't be doing or I don't want to be doing because it's not helping me progress on my goals or get to where I want to be and not feel stuck in certain areas of my life is that I'm.
Speaker B:I'm disconnected from the reason why I want to do the things that I want to do or something that I've been thinking a lot because I've.
Speaker B:I've done this work and I really have like spent a lot of time and energy and effort and money.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Co coaching and doing programs to, to answer this question.
Speaker B:But, but that for whatever reason, I'm still.
Speaker B:It's almost like I'm.
Speaker B:I'm not connecting to the real reason.
Speaker B:For me, that's deep enough to make my why big enough to overcome these survival mechanisms, basically.
Speaker B:And just being.
Speaker B:Being sort of disconnected from the why or disconnected from sort of like my commitment to this or that thing.
Speaker B:And that, you know, one program that I did used it in the context of breakdowns and breakthroughs and that anytime you do something that you don't want to be doing, like a bad habit or a poor coping mechanism or wasting time, that's a breakdown.
Speaker B:You're like, you have a breakdown in your commitment to the goal and you're disconnected from the why.
Speaker B:But it's like as soon as you reconnect, recommit, and literally do anything that is like in alignment with who you want to be and what you want to create, that.
Speaker B:That's a breakthrough.
Speaker B:And that one of the problems that I have and that we have, so many of us as humans, especially artists and creators, is that, you know, our internal voice is so harsh and critical.
Speaker B:So many of us understand that we, the way that we speak to ourselves in our own head, like being our worst critic and being harsh against ourselves or maybe, you know, some of the things that I want to do.
Speaker B:There's a part of me that's like, that's stupid, that's.
Speaker B:That's dumb.
Speaker B:No one's gonna like that.
Speaker B:And those things, those things, you know, it's like we would, we would never speak to anyone else in our, in our life the way that we speak to ourselves a lot of the time.
Speaker B:And in order to get from, you know, being in sort of breakdown mode back into breakthrough, it's like everything has to do with practice.
Speaker B:Every, every single skill in order to overcome these types of dynamics has to do with practice.
Speaker B:It's like the reason the doing of the things is hard is because you haven't built the skill.
Speaker B:And if you want to build the skill, you have to practice.
Speaker B:You want to build a new habit, you have to practice this, you have to do it right.
Speaker B:And, and just also the importance of acknowledging ourselves and really like feeling it, feeling good about the things that we, we do do, the things, the actions that we do take that are aligned with who we want to be and where we want to go, what we want to create for ourselves in our lives.
Speaker B:And yeah, just, you know, a lot of what, what I'm speaking to is just that, you know, despite having spent a lot of time, energy and effort and money to learn these things, it's, you know, it's a, it's a journey.
Speaker B:It's a roller coaster ride and everybody gets that.
Speaker B:You know, life has its ups and downs and it has its, its challenges where I make progress and then I fall back into old habits or I reach some sort of obstacle or challenge and I really kind of let it bog me down and stop me for a little while.
Speaker B:But then eventually I sort of am like, okay, I've.
Speaker B:I've wallowed in my fucking cave of self pity for long enough.
Speaker B:It's time to, time to take action on, on this thing again.
Speaker B:And then I do.
Speaker B:And yeah, you know, there's a.
Speaker A:That's.
Speaker A:Yeah, that was a lot.
Speaker A:There's a lot of information.
Speaker A:But there are, there are a few things I want to say to that.
Speaker A:One is one of my favorite sort of.
Speaker A:Is it an allegory or a proverb or whatever the heck it is?
Speaker A:It's not religious thing, so maybe it's not proverb.
Speaker A:Stories that I've learned since I've sort of.
Speaker A:And I read this years and years ago and it's always stuck with me sort of lessons for life is a story.
Speaker A:Don't know if it's true or not.
Speaker A:It's irrelevant.
Speaker A:There was a man or an ancient Greek philosopher walking across the seaside and he saw in the distance someone running to the ocean and then running back a little bit and then running back to the ocean and running back and he wondered what was going on.
Speaker A:And he went over to this guy and he said, what are you doing?
Speaker A:And he said, oh, I'm trying to put the ocean inside this little hole, this little hole that I've made in the sand.
Speaker A:And the guy laughed and he.
Speaker A:And the point.
Speaker A:And the guy laughed and said, what the heck are you doing?
Speaker A:You'd never be able to do that.
Speaker A:And the point of the story is that it's possible that our psyche, our brain can't actually.
Speaker A:We can't consume everything that is to possibly consume.
Speaker A:You know, maybe.
Speaker A:Maybe that one drop of water that you can pick up and put in the hole already holds in some sort of spiritual sense.
Speaker A:It holds all the wisdom and knowledge that that ocean, so to speak, represents.
Speaker A:You don't actually need the whole.
Speaker A:You don't need all the data that you can possibly learn.
Speaker A:You don't have to keep learning and learning and learning to sort of comprehend the innate knowledge and wisdom that's inside a drop of water that you put inside that thing.
Speaker A:So that always stuck me.
Speaker A:I thought that was cool.
Speaker A:Second thing is when you.
Speaker A:You spoke about how you, you know, you fall back into old patterns and you have this voice.
Speaker A:And I always.
Speaker A:I do think a really good way of conceptualizing us as beings and as humans is that we're made up of.
Speaker A:It's not my idea.
Speaker A:This is what, like, Freud and Jung thought.
Speaker A:We're made up of multiple little personalities.
Speaker A:And all these personalities have, like, motivations and fears and feelings and sensations attached to them as part of the paradigm that makes them up.
Speaker A:And these, you know, like the film Inside out, where the Disney film where the.
Speaker A:She's got emotions in our head, like we have multiple ones of them.
Speaker A:And sometimes, you know, some people are born with a bigger bully than other people are.
Speaker A:You know, you're our inner critic.
Speaker A:Some people have a larger bullies and other people and all right, it's just.
Speaker B:Trying to do with them or.
Speaker A:Exactly.
Speaker A:Or it grows with time because people listen to it or they're taught to listen to it while.
Speaker A:So growing up, it reaffirms what the bully says and what the external world shows them reaffirms.
Speaker A:So it just gets bigger and bigger.
Speaker A:But I do really think that if you can start seeing it as just like a part of you, not actually you.
Speaker A:It's not even you.
Speaker A:It's not even a part of you.
Speaker A:It's like a separate entity that lives inside your head that everyone possesses.
Speaker A:I do really think that once you disassociate from it or try to disassociate from it, which is a difficult thing to do, but if you do it with time.
Speaker A:Like, I do really think that I'm, you know, it's a continuous journey.
Speaker A:You've got to keep going, going, going at these things.
Speaker A:But I think that would be really helpful, and that is really helpful to me, and I'd recommend anyone doing that.
Speaker A:And then the third and final thing, just a little funny thing going back to Jordan, a little thing that I learned from Jordan Peterson ages ago.
Speaker A:You spoke about people not wanting to sort of push themselves in some ways because they know that they're going to be met with that kickback and that sort of imposing force.
Speaker A:And there's a story with.
Speaker A:Because, you know, zebras, zebras, zebras.
Speaker A:For you, zebras are black and white.
Speaker A:And people say it's because they're camouflaged.
Speaker A:And you think, well, how can they be camouflaged?
Speaker A:There's nothing in the jungle where they live, Africa, that's black and white.
Speaker A:And what it means is that they're camouflaged against each other.
Speaker A:So a, a photographer or someone, you know is trying to take photos of a specific zebra.
Speaker A:And he's, you know, he looks away for one second, looks back, and he's like, oh, I've lost a zebra.
Speaker A:I don't know which one is.
Speaker A:So what they started doing was they started like, maybe tagging their ears or putting like a mark on their.
Speaker A:Wherever this is called haunch nose.
Speaker A:And they found that the lions got all the zebras.
Speaker A:Zebras that had some sort of distinguishing feature because they could pick them out because they could.
Speaker A:Like, if you're chasing a head of zebras and you're a lion, you're like, I'll focus on that one.
Speaker A:And then one runs in front of it and you're like, okay, now I don't know which one to go.
Speaker A:So you, the predator becomes confused and muddled by the fact that they're so similar.
Speaker A:And then.
Speaker A:But if you create something that specifies a prey, then the predator can snap it up like that.
Speaker A:And that exists on a psychological basis as well.
Speaker A:And it also exists on a personal basis that the people that.
Speaker A:You know, we have a saying in England.
Speaker A:I think you've basically said the same saying, but the tallest poppy gets his head chopped off first.
Speaker A:And yes, that is hard, but I do think that's how we grow as people.
Speaker A:You know, I'm going to put a thing up on my Instagram, my foot, another, a reel up, and it's with a quote.
Speaker A:And it's like, Jung said, that which you most need can be found where you least want to look.
Speaker A:And I love that quote is another one of my favorite.
Speaker A:That's probably my favorite quote.
Speaker A:And then the.
Speaker A:The ocean one, the seaside one was my.
Speaker A:Is my favorite sort of parable.
Speaker B:But, yeah, yeah, that's something I think about a lot as well.
Speaker B:And you know, what, what.
Speaker B:What's your timeline like?
Speaker B:Do you want to wrap up?
Speaker A:We could do 15 more minutes.
Speaker A:Yeah, 15 minutes.
Speaker A:15 more minutes.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I just want to gauge.
Speaker B:Yeah, well, that's the thing, right.
Speaker B:Like, I think about that a lot.
Speaker B:That quote that, you know, the.
Speaker B:The thing that you want most is on the other side of fear is another one.
Speaker A:The thing that you need most.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:I think that's a better word.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:Yeah, so it's.
Speaker B:It's like something I think about a lot is that nothing.
Speaker B:Nothing that I am experiencing in life is unique.
Speaker B:You know, I have my.
Speaker B:My unique experiences in certain ways, but we all do.
Speaker B:But for the most part, the overarching structures of experience in life are relatable to millions of other people, and they're not unique in that way.
Speaker B:And that's.
Speaker B:That's a good thing.
Speaker B:You know, that.
Speaker B:That's something that we can be hopeful that there are people who have struggled with things very similar to me and you and anyone else who's listening to this.
Speaker B:And some people struggle and they don't overcome, but there are people out there who have, you know, the.
Speaker B:The possibility to become who you want to and build the things, create the things in your life that you want to create are possible.
Speaker B:And there's many living examples and examples of people no longer living who've done those things.
Speaker B:And that, you know, every day is.
Speaker B:Is another day to get kind of like reconnect with what those things are and recommit to you're.
Speaker B:That.
Speaker B:That you're.
Speaker B:You're going to do them and work on them and.
Speaker B:And to give yourself some grace.
Speaker B:That there are powerful forces within us that think they're protecting us, essentially parts of us that think that they're protecting us, that keep us kind of stuck in old ways of being or getting into ruts and, you know, that we can.
Speaker B:We can always learn more and we can grow and we can try again every day, basically.
Speaker B:And something that I want to sort of like leave you with.
Speaker B:And whoever is.
Speaker B:Whoever's listening to this is.
Speaker B:There's a guy called Dr.
Speaker B:John Demartini.
Speaker B:Have you ever heard of him?
Speaker A:No.
Speaker B:He's.
Speaker B:He's one of my favorite people.
Speaker B:He's a modern polymath, like a Renaissance man, an expert in many Many different fields and you know, business and scientific disciplines and personal growth, all sorts of different things.
Speaker B:And I did a work, I did a quite an expensive two day workshop with him once called the Breakthrough Experience.
Speaker B:And one of the things that he talks about is related to what you were saying about.
Speaker B:If we can shift our perspective even on the things that we find to be the most challenging, then they, we, we can flip them.
Speaker B:They can become a, like a, a pro rather than a con.
Speaker B:They can be con.
Speaker B:And, and this is the case for so many people with you know, obviously a lot of bad things happen to people.
Speaker B:A lot of challenges that we've experienced have left us with traumas and scars and these, you know, harsh self critical voices, shame, regret, all these like really difficult things to deal with as a human.
Speaker B:But then for, for me and for so many people, the experience that they have is that, you know, it sucks when we're kind of stuck in the challenges and the things that we find to be really difficult with our life.
Speaker B:But then a lot of times we use those things to learn and grow because they necessitate, they force it on us in a lot of ways that White did.
Speaker B:You better learn and grow about the, about this like aspect.
Speaker B:And then somewhere down the road we look back on that thing not as that was the worst thing that ever happened to me or that was so terrible because we look at, well actually what that forced me to do and what it forced me to learn and how it forced me to grow actually.
Speaker B:Now that is one of my most cherished things about my experience in life because of what, what came of it essentially.
Speaker B:And the way that Dr.
Speaker B:John Demartini talks about this is that there, there are no positives without negatives.
Speaker B:There are no negatives without positives.
Speaker B:Life is about balance.
Speaker B:It's about the yin and the yang.
Speaker B:And he, he has like a pretty profound explanation of how it's, it's like the, the fabric of reality itself seeks balance.
Speaker B:And the way that that shows up within us, it shows up on the psychological level, it shows up on the physiological level.
Speaker B:And that might be like something showing up as a mental ailment or a physical disease.
Speaker B:But what, what that is is that it's symptoms that are showing you where to look and what to learn to find, to sort of rebalance yourself.
Speaker B:It's like if you have a physical ailment, well, you probably need to eat better and exercise and that's going to rebalance your system and then you're going to be healthy again.
Speaker B:It's going to work.
Speaker B:And it's like if we don't take the symptoms that show up for us psychologically or mentally or physically, then it goes to the next level.
Speaker B:Next level is socially.
Speaker B:That's when you may have your friends or your family be the reflection for you of where you're unbalanced in your life, maybe in how you're thinking, how you're behaving, whatnot, but that it, it goes up.
Speaker B:And I think this is like, sort of more related to like these bigger social issues that we're seeing is because we're, we're so lacking balance in so many ways in our world that people aren't having their needs met.
Speaker B:It's, it's resulting in epidemics of depression, anxiety, mental health issues.
Speaker B:There's a obesity epidemic.
Speaker B:Obviously there are clear reasons as to why that is in certain cases, like the food system that we have in, in a lot of ways the shit that people are eating that they shouldn't be, but that when we don't take the feedback at the lower levels, it goes and kicks up to another level.
Speaker B:So now we see all this conflict in society because we, we essentially need to build better systems that better meet people's needs for our society and for our world.
Speaker B:And because we don't have those things in place, it's causing conflict at greater and greater levels.
Speaker B:And that conflict actually is part of the process of trying to kind of get back to a place of balance, to meeting, meeting sort of needs and stuff.
Speaker B:But that he, he goes as far as to say that if it's not resolved at the, like, the social level, then it will go to the theological level.
Speaker B:That the very nature of reality itself also seeks balance.
Speaker B:Whether you think of that in a scientific way or you think of it in a religious way, that it's God, it's like every single level of existence seeks balance.
Speaker B:And if you're unbalanced, you'll get indications of where that unbalance is.
Speaker B:And, and in the, in the realm of.
Speaker B:And, and that's kind of like what the yin and the yang is, right?
Speaker B:It's like absolutely idea that you, you know, that's, that's a picture of like what life is and the reality that demartini talks about that there are no positives without negatives, and there are no negatives without positives.
Speaker B:If you essentially, if you go to one side or the other, no matter what challenge you may be faced with in your life, or even some of the things that may not be challenges, they may be positives, but they can still become unbalanced, of course.
Speaker B:Right, yeah.
Speaker B:Is that it's.
Speaker B:It rests essentially in, like, delusional beliefs.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:Like, if you're.
Speaker B:If you're focusing entirely on the negatives and you're not focusing on the positives, it doesn't mean that the positives aren't there.
Speaker B:It just means that you're not focusing on them.
Speaker B:And so your delusional thinking has you essentially trapped in, like, a nightmare.
Speaker B:Whereas on the flip side, if you're focusing only on the positives and not on the negatives, it doesn't mean the negatives aren't there.
Speaker B:It just means that you're not focusing on them.
Speaker B:And so your.
Speaker B:Your thinking is sort of trapping you in still delusion, but a fantasy.
Speaker B:And if we can train ourselves, and this is something, again, takes practice.
Speaker B:And I, I have plenty of practice to kind of refocus myself around these things that if we can come back to a place of balance and almost like every area of our lives, our belief systems, the way we look at.
Speaker B:At ourselves and each other and the world, that there.
Speaker B:It's like there's no, there's no problem that we can't solve if we do that process, essentially.
Speaker B:But, yeah, if you haven't checked him out, I.
Speaker B:I would suggest checking him out.
Speaker B:He's one of my.
Speaker B:One of my faves, for sure.
